Experiences
This static page is set up for my visitors to tell their own stories of their encounters with bipolar disorder. Anonymous comments ARE allowed per the posting rules on my About page. Even if you don’t want to be identified, your experience can still be shared.
Hello, It was great to come upon your blog. I am an adult child of a bipolar mother. I am married with two small children. My mother lives in a retirement facility where she is medicated and monitored. She currently is in a cycle where she needs to be hospitalized every two years to have her medication adjusted. She tried to commit suicide two years ago.
I am coming to terms with the fact that for my own sanity and mental health and the general well-being of my children that I have to cut-off my mother from our lives. She called at 5:00 am a couple of months ago accusing my husband of something he did not do, threatening police action. (this is after the first one hour visit we had with her in three years) Granted she is delusional but the threat from her regarding my family’s safety was the final straw. I can not take her drama any longer. She is manipulative with her illness using it as an excuse when it suits her or remains in a state of complete denial at other times. Her selfishness with her behavior and her illness robbed me of a childhood. I grew up trying to make sense of her irrational behavior while my father withdrew into his own world leaving the house with me to deal with my mother.
It sounds as if your family is coming to terms with your mothers illness late in her life. The best thing you can do is have her committed when she needs it and explain to your kids what’s going on. I know it is completly maddening and frustrating but your mother will probably always remain in denial of her illness. There just comes a time when you need to take a step back to restore the peace in your own family and regain a peace of mind for yourself. When I was involved in helping my mother get treatment, she thrived on the drama it caused our family and the guilt that it entailed. I would advise that you just take a step back from interacting with your mother and give your own family a breathe of air. Try it for six months to a year for the mental well-being of everyone.
I’ve had a tough time locating info or books regarding adult children of bipolar parents. Please feel free to forward any info you have come across.
Thank you & Good Luck!
MY MOTHER IS BIPOLAR AND TERMINALLY ILL — 51 minutes ago
IM NOT THE SORT OF PERSON THAT TALKS ABOUT THIS AT ALL, EXCEPT TO MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS. I GET MIXED RESPONSES AND NOTHING REALLY SOLID THAT HELPS OR MAKES ME FEEL BETTER. MY MOTHER IS A HUGE PART OF MY LIFE, ALWAYS HAS BEEN. MY FATHER IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND AND WHEN I DID KNOW HIM, HE HID BEHIND GOD AND JUST WASN’T WITH IT. ANYWAY MY MOM HAS BEEN BIPOLAR SINCE I’VE KNOWN HER. ALWAYS YELLING AT ME AND RAGING OVER ABS NOTHING. WHEN I WAS 16 I WENT TO LIVE WITH MY G-MA, I WAS 200 MI AWAY FROM HER. DURING THOSE 6 YEARS MY LIFE WAS SO CALM AND EVERYTHING GOOD, EXCEPT WHEN SHE WOULD CALL AND SCREAM ON THE PHONE OR SHE WAS HAVING PANIC ATTACKS CAUSE SHE THOUGH SPIRITS WERE TAKING OVER HER BODY. IN 04 SHE WAS DIAGNOISED WITH BREAST CANCER LIKE SHE REALLY NEEDED THAT. SHE DROVE ME AND MY GRANDMOTHER CRAZY BECAUSE SHE DID NOT WANT TO GO FOR THE MASCTOMY, BUT SHE HAD TO OR SHE WOULD OF DIED. SHE NEVER WENT FOR THE CHEMO, SHE SAID IT WASN’T WORTH IT WHICH IS HER CHOICE, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS A DUMB CHOICE. NOW SHE HAS A SPREAD, WHICH SPREAD TO HER LIVER, LUNGS. SHE DECIDED TO DO CHEMO CAUSE THEY GAVE HER 6MOS, WITHOUT IT, BUT SHE’S NOT DOING THE VERY STRONG ONE, BECAUSE SHE DOESNT WANT TO LOOSE HER HAIR. I’VE NEVER BEEN THE TYPE TO REALLY STAND UP TO HER BECAUSE IM AFRAID OF HER AND AS IM GETTING OLDER I JUST SEEM TO RUNAWAY NOW. I DONT KNOW WHY, IS IT BECAUSE IM SO TIRED OF THE ABUSE, WHEN SHE CALLS MY HEART DROPS CAUSE IM EITHER GOING TO GET YELLED AT FOR NOTHING OR SHES JUST GOING TO BE MEAN OR SHES WASTED ON PAIN KILLERS OR SHES MANIC, SHE’S GOTTEN ALOT WORSE. MY FAMILY REALLY DOESNT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH HER, BUT I FEEL SO GUILTY BECAUSE SHE HAS CANCER AND I DONT KNOW HOW LONG SHES GONNA BE HERE. I STRUGGLE WITH THIS EVERYDAY, IT’S STARTING TO CONSUME MY LIFE. ALL OF MY RELATIONSHIPS WITH FRIENDS AND MY BF ARE FAILING, IM ALWAYS DEPRESSED AND ANXIOUS, LIKE MY NAME SAYS I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE, I CAN’T FIX IT THIS TIME!!
i’ve been recentley trying all these sites for someone to leave me with some feedback thats going through what im going through, im 24.
Hi, Vita –
My mother is bipolar also, and though she is not dying (that I know of), so far in the past seven years she has pretended to have camcer twice and Alzheimer’s, once. The cancer scares were obvious hoaxes, but she really had me believing the Alzheimers one. I know about the guilt you speak of. I’m her only child, and she’s widowed…..plus if the time ever comes that I need to put her in a nursing home, I fear my own three grown children will hate me or at the very least resent me for it. (If I can even do it. I don’t know. Thankfully, that time hasn’t come yet.)
I also can very much relate to your saying you just seem to run away. I do too. It makes it a little easier that I was advised to do so, by two psychiatrists and a medical doctor, plus a handful of therapists.
I get the impression that you’ve simply done all you can do, and that you’re at the end of your rope. I think it’s all right to retreat under those circumstances…..my God, even the Army retreats when it has nothing left to fight with! And this truly is a fight, isn’t it – trying to stay sane and rational, and know which end is up, while dealing with a bipolar loved one.
It sounds to me like you’ve done your best to see to it that your mother is safe and in good care. (She’s very lucky in that respect. Not all mentally ill parents have children who care that much about them. Please give yourself a pat on the back for that, you deserve it.)
I’m wondering, does it help to picture someone else in your shoes, being faced with the same decisions you have to face every day > I mean *all* the decisions. This person does not get more strenth or stamina or support than you – they get a level playing field. They must do this with the resources you have, both inner and outer, and nothing more. Would you be as hard on them, if it was, say, a close friemd, and not you >
I think sometimes we tend to be more merciful toward others, than we do to ourselves. But we need that mercy too, and you can only do so much and take so much.
It sounds like you’re really trying to be there for your mother, when you find those moments of strength….and then only if she’ll let you.
YOu deserve (and I’m guessing desperately need) some time for yourself. My God, you’re only 24….? Wow. That makes me really sad. I have a daughter who’s 24. I can only imagine what it would do to her, to have all this impossible responsibility on her shoulders.
You didn’t make your mom this way, and you can’t make her well. Nor can you make her happy, not if she’s anything like my own mom and the other bipolar peole I know. Being unhappy and unsatisfies is just another very sad part of the disease, and there is nothing you can do.
I hoep you can find a way to set down that bag of guilt long enough to get a good night’s sleep, and go as long as you can tomorrow without picking it up.
I’m guessing it looks a lot like mine, and the damn things are just too heavy to carry.
Give yourself a hug for me if you want one, because I’m sending you one – and just for this one night, give yourself a break.
God bless.
– Forestchild
Vita….I am going to let my wife respond to this. She would be the one who could really help you. She has been in your shoes in more way then one.
If you come back and leave a comment with your email…they are private. If you would like she could respond to you personally in an email. None of the information provided goes any further than me.
She wants to think for a day or two before she responds. She does empathize with you.
Thank you so much for replying, you have no idea!, yea my email is********* and again thank you so much!!
She said to expect an email by either tonight (late..knowing her..lol) or tomorrow.
Hi Vita,
I, too, am in a similar situation with my mother. I am 27 and have distanced myself from my bipolar mother. However, she is filing for bankruptcy and hitting rock bottom mentally and physically. When we talk on the phone she is angry when I am not pitying her and trying to enable her. One minute she is using her mental illness as an excuse for why she can’t get a job or take care of herself and the next minute she is angry if I mention it and says that I am judging her. I’m so tired after all of the years of playing her therapist and parent that I just don’t have anything emotionally left to give to her. She just turned 49 on Saturday and has no savings and no retirement. She also has my sixteen year old learning disabled brother living with her and completely smothers him and has crippled him socially. I feel guilty for not being able to help her and while I could have her live with me she would drive my husband and I up the wall. I don’t know what is going to happen to her and like I said I am tired of trying to always fix her life. I wish you the best Vita and I am very sorry to hear about what you are going through. Please consider seeing a therapist and getting some medication to help with your situation. Both of these options has helped me move on with my life. You deserve a good life. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Vita,
I wish you the best. My situation is just like JMG’s and yours. I just really don’t know how to help my mother. My dad is 67 and my mom is 61. She sits in her car all day long listening to the chime from the key in the ignition. She says that someone is talking to her. I have my own family and don’t live anywhere close to home. But my dad calls all the time and tells me about her condition. He had heart surgery in January, a triple bypass. I don’t know how much more he can take of her. A couple of years ago when my dad had a job and health insurance, through his blessing I had the DA’s office file and pick her up to take her to a treatment facility. That cost my dad a pretty penny even with insurance. But it did not do any good. She wouldn’t take the medicine and she guilts everyone in our family for sending her there. Now shes not doing good again, my dad lost his job sometime back. I just don’t know how to help. The Da’s office said unless she tries to harm someone or herself there is nothing they can do. I feel so sad for my father. He is such a good hearted man and she doesn’t deserve him. They too don’t have any retirement or a burial space. I am so worried about what to do if my father passes on first. She can’t take care of herself or anyone else. It is so sad. If I do find out anything that could help I will pass on to you. Hang in there. Just always remeber it is not your fault. You will be blamed for everything. But its not your fault.
CA,
If your father passes first, and you are REALLY sure, you could try to have your mother declared incompetent. That would place her care and finances in someone else’s (read your) hands. Basically she would become a dependent, like a child under 18.
oh my goodness i am just accepting this as an illness as i could be reading about my mum. At the minute im in the process of trying to get a conviction against my mum for abuse against me and my 2 sisters and father (who died of lung cancer on xx/xx/xx). Her own mother my grandmother died on xx/xx/xx and her father is currently in a secure mental hospital since the death of my grandmother as my mother has told very serious lies about him. The fact that she can cause so much hurt and pain and still convince others that she is a lovely person i wonder is she a psychopath. I live very close to her and keep my doors locked at all times and don’t answer the door to her. This sounds so awful but i imagine her funeral and the peace i will finally have as she has tortured me my all my life i am 29 and am so sick of her when i think of her my heart races and i feel bad and nervous and afraid. Its great to hear from others and we thankfully are not all nutters like our mothers but just human beings suffering and we should feel no quilt i think she should be locked up indefinitely sorry for being so angry but you have all been here. i must say i noticed in all your blog the paranoia and having to constantly explain yourself and verify im exactly the same i think they have you that way as your constantly battling lies.
Edited to remove names & dates – upon request
I don’t know how it is to grow up with this type of illness but, I do know how it is to be married to a man whose mother is bipolar and has post traumatic stress disorder.!!! I couldn’t understand how someone could be so moody for no reason. This past weekend my sisters-in-law experience the instrument of guilt by their mother for going out to dinner with me and my husband. Apparently my mother -in-law is mad at me because when my husband was in a car accident a week ago and at the hospital he soley leaned on me for support and never asked her to do anything for him. I am his wife and I thought that was my job. She decided that I was taking him away from her or whatever her excuse was to have an episode but she told them they didn’t love her because they knew how she felt. Get a gripp!!! So they called us up asking me to apologize just so she can stop being upset with them. Maddness!!! I feel for them because I refuse to be subject to anyone’s abuse and I did nothing wrong so no apology from me. My husband is supporting me 100%. it will continue as long as they allow it too. After talking with them for hours, one of them disclosed what is actually wrong with her and that’s the illnesses above. So I pray for all. This has affected my marriage for eight years I refuse to continue after this point to allow her illnesses to destroy my family. I decided to study first before I approach my husband about it. Even though he is aware to some degree she is still his mother and he has to accepted within his own time. Be encouraged and set boundaries!!!
I’m sure that my Wife could sympathize with you. I had been ‘tuning out’ my Mother for quite some time, and it took a lot of work for me to finally start hearing what she was saying.
Your husband and his family aren’t the first to decide to just give Mom what she wants, hopefully to quiet her down for a little while. The term for that is APPEASEMENT, and it has the opposite of the desired effect. Giving in just produces more of the same behavior – like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum in a store. Unfortunately, when dealing with the mentally ill, ‘teaching’ her appropriate behavior is probably not going to happen. At least not without a tazer – not that the thought hasn’t crossed my mind.
You mentioned boundaries – your situation is different than mine, but the boundary that I’ve set (and everyone here seems to be OK with) is that she has NO contact with anyone other than me – and that is ONLY on my cell phone or work phone.
I am also afraid as I have begun reading and studying about this disorder that my husband may inherit this illness. Am I ahead of myself on this one or on the right path? He does what you use to do-he “tunes” her out and keeps his distance majority of the time. We have two children who love their grandma very much and I am at a point of keeping them away but he doesn’t think it will effect them because they are still young. But I just can’t let them be around her so much anymore because they ask questions and I don’t have the answers. This is harder than I thought, when I am mad it is easier to stay away but when I’m not, my children wants to visit her…I am confused but determined to have sanity!
Bipolar disorder isn’t always inherited. Statistically, if one parent has it, there is a 15-30% chance of a child having it. If both parents have it, that risk rises to 50-75%.
Statistics provided by http://www.bipolarhelpcenter.com/
Initial onset of symptoms of bipolar can vary widely. Sometimes the first episode occurs at puberty, other times the first episode is in the 20s – 30s.
Psychology isn’t an exact science, and anything they label is merely a collection of symptoms. Not all bipolar disorder is genetic, some cases are environmental. There is no good research to say which is more prevalent.
If her behavior sounds like my Mom, then there are quite a few other possibilities, not just bipolar. It can only be bipolar if there has been a manic or hypo-manic episode. Otherwise, it is probably a different personality disorder.
Tuning out someone is easy, especially if your mother-in-law’s behavior has been consistent throughout your husband’s life. It will probably take something major to snap him out of it – it did for me.
If your kids are asking questions, and you don’t have the answers, have them ask your husband. Most of all, be honest with them. One of the things I remember telling my daughter when she was about 4 was that ‘nice people don’t say things like that’.
Your kids probably still want to visit because they have a good time – sometimes. I don’t think that I was right when I continued allowing visits when they were younger. It would have caused all sorts of problems, but YOU are the adult, they are just kids. You wouldn’t let them play with a dog or cat that only bit them once in a while, even if they wanted to.
Where to start…………..
Here is a story for you. Ever since I was a small child around the age of 5 I remember my mother having very violent outbursts toward me and my younger sister. I also remember a man that would come over and “visit” while my dad was at work. I was always told and threatened not to tell my father that this person was at the house. I remember one time I told the guy I was going to tell my father and I remember limping away with bruising on my shins from being kicked by his boots. I remember my mother and grandmother always being on the outs with one another. These sometimes would be violent or non-violent episodes. I always remember my stomach being upset growing up. My mother was always in some sort of an altercation
I lived with a mother that has this disorder and refuses to this day to get help she needs. I cut her off about 4 years ago after she and my dad divorced. She thinks that because we havent spoken in a very long time that she can all of a sudden start a dialogue with me. It all started about 3 weeks ago, I came into my office and noticed she had tried to call my work phone. I sent her an email to ask her what she needed. This eneded up for her a dialogue and I fell for it for a few days. I responded to some of her emails and let her see a picture of her grandchild, then she started to call my cell phone wanting to come by my home. I wrote her a new email that said “I still am recovering from the abuse and the hurt and am not ready for a full on relationship with you” I need my space. This has sent her off of the edge again with me. Now I am dead to her again. When she gets pissed your either dead to her or she will cry, most of the time she is very destructive, I have seen her throw things threw walls, i have seen her get into physical altercations over someone driving too close to her. She displays her emotions not rationally. I have seen her get worse over the years and I think it has to do with her divorce to my dad ( I know he has issues too). I dont have a relationship with either of my parents, I am 35 years old, happily married and am on Geodon to treat the elements that have been passed down to me from my parents. The sad part is that My mother still denies a lot of the things she has done in the past. Is this part of being delusional? She moved about 7 years ago to a different state to be with a married man, when she found out he wasnt leaving his wife and kids she lost it, calling me from a field 3000 miles away telling me she was going to end her life. Crying to me daily , telling me and my children at that time what a horrible man my dad has been, meanwhile she sneaks into the married mans house and rearranges his furniture while he , his wife, and kids are out of town for a weekend. This was a while ago and now she has moved back into the same part of town i am in. I told her when she moved her that i wanted to set some boundries, since then i was an asshole prick and dead to her, she said nobody tells me when or when i can come to their house. I will never call my kids house before i come over. so it was then that i made the choice you just wont come around at all. I feel guilt sometimes to this day , not letting her in my kids life or mine and my wifes.there is always a pit in my stomach when i hear her name or even think i see her. Her divorce was nasty, it didnt have to be but because my dad found someone new, she had to make it hard on everyone. She took him to court for things that a judge even said to her “your wasting the courts time and money, you need to move on”. So she has one restraining order against her ina different state for stalking harrassing and then she has 2 in the state i live in now. Am i alone for feeling sorry for her or guilt that I have at times. Is this normal? When i mean stalk or harrass she will drive down your street 10 times day, email you, crank call you, call your employer. She is really off her rocker. I know i was going down the same path and have never felt better being on meds that I am on now. What do you guys think……….
P.S……..
She also says she will go after her grandparent rights?
If the meds are working for you, great. Keep up with your pdoc about any changes.
Were I in your position (and I am, sortof) I wouldn’t permit her around. Your primary responsibility is to your kids. If she is destructive, prone to violent moods, and verbally or physically abusive, then you have no choice but to keep her away from you and your family.
You shouldn’t feel guilty about not letting her see your kids – she would only end up hurting them the same way that she did you. And since they haven’t grown up in that volatile atmosphere, it probably wouldn’t take as much to bother them.
If you’re concerned that she may actually sue for grandparents rights, the AARP had a table on their site showing what the general guidelines were in the different states. It has since been taken down, but is available from the wayback machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20011123050411/http://www.aarp.org/litigation/table.html
Feeling guilty is a good thing – it means that you are aware of how your actions impact other people. If I had to guess, your mother has NEVER felt guilty over anything. I pity your mother, and mine as well. It is a shame that they have such a great desire for what THEY have made impossible. But, it was all her doing.
I feel sorry for my mother at times too. Unfortunately the change needed MUST come from within. Until they recognize that THEY are the problem, it will never happen.
Ok I just stumbled on this web site. But it seems as if my story fits very well with the other posts on here.
My mom (62) has always been high drama. Very emotional, unstable, spends every penny she has, has no retirement etc. She has always been with a man that beats her (every man has done this including my latest step dad). I am an adult (happily married) that lives as far away from her as I can. When I try to tell her to kick out my step dad she says she is afraid to be alone (rather be beaten than sleep alone very crazy). When I tell her that she needs counseling she just laughs. When I say she should get financial help and debt consolidation well you get the picture. She can be very violent and I’m afraid that these two will kill each other someday.
Is there any thing that I can do to help this situation? I’m at a loss. Thank you for any advice.
Your Mom is an adult, and is free to make her own poor choices. If she is violent and unstable, then keeping her from your family is probably the best. Realize that she will probably never change, and any external influence really won’t do any good. Most people have to hit rock bottom before they have enough will to make changes.
If I were you, I wouldn’t separate completely from her – leave lines of communication available if she needs it. If she does express some desire to change, be as supportive as you can. And pray for her too.
Thank you for your kind response. Yes I pray for her. I am afraid for her too. The whole situation just makes me sad.
The guilt comes and goes but you are right in saying that my children do not need to see her destructive ways. She was physically and very mentally abusive and to this day still is. the last thing i got from her was an email with a link in it. when i went to it it was her blog , she was destroying my younger sister online since they had a falling out, telling the public what a looser she is, how she doesnt pay her bills and that she accidentally went into their home when they were not home and mmy sister was upset with her. I guess when it angered her she went on the blog and really hammered everyone in her way. she is up and down so much i am so glad i found and accepted the help i needed. For those that say it may or may not run in your family, please keep an eye on your loved ones, both of my parents are bipolar and my dad is also schizo. i was born into what i think is an illness however i choose to get help and to better myself. i would hate to die alone or to be alone, granted i used to not care but what a difference a small pill can make in ones life. i have never been happier. along with the pill of course comes group therapy and one on one as well but in the end it is so worth it. I am happy for myself and have stopped destrutcive ways that i once endured. I used to be horrible with money and always broke not knowing where it went, today i can account for every dime, i used to pratice risky sexual behavior (lots of different people) and from what i understand is a condition that could be started from this illness. I used to think it was from watching my mother have multiple partners while my father was at work. you learn what you see and pratixce what you are shown so i thought it was just that but all in all it was a product of both. I wish anyone out there the strength and courage it takes to deal with and to stay away from any person that refuses to get help. It is hard but your life becomes so much more simple and no drama. everyday my mother has some sort of drama going on in her life, i mean everyday there is something going on . i wish you all luck.
i sympathise with you all. i have a mum whose bi-polar, im 21 and was put into care at the age of 12 when my mum had her first manic episode. i cut my mum off when i was 15 and when i was 17 have regained contact. i love her to pieces as if she didnt have this illness shes an intelligent, loving and attentive mum but over the past few years the illness has consumed her. she is now on a spiral and is so low that i cant see her getting over this one very quickly. she also told me that she might have breast cancer and wont do anything about it as she says there is no point. shes losing weight rapidly and over the last few months has had chest and kidney infections. i dont know what to do i feel like i have already lost my mum to this horrible illness already, i share all your pain and wish you all luck in coping.
i am seeing this site for the first time, searching for any answers to what seems like a hopeless situation w/ my mom. I feel everyone’s pain so much- I’m 26, an only child of a relationship my dad tried sadly to keep with my mom until I was about 10- after that I saw her on weekends, never wanting to since I was so relieved to be away from her hurtful,scary, and embarrassing episodes. By my 20s, my dad remarried and my mom’s family put full guilt and responsibility on me to maintain the sole connection with my mom, who has, since being out of my dad’s care, been homeless, arrested, remarried, divorced… .I remember 8th grade, my dad dropping me off for a afternoon visit outside the homeless shelter…Over the past 5 years, I have struggled with my new role with her. She’s never been there for me, yet I’ve felt obligated to love her and help her. She lives 30 minutes away & calls me many times a week (I hate when my phone rings & screen my calls). She knows nothing about my life yet tries to tell me what to do, she truly sees me as the ten year old she left. A couple months ago, she called from the psych hospital (a common thing), and said the most disturbing, hurtful things ever- I fell on the floor and cried. For the first time something snapped in me- I was done. I feel like it’s always been about her and never about me. But I know it is selfish to turn my back on her when the illness is not her fault and I am the only family she has. She has zero insite into her illness or her destructive influence on my life. I realize that the guilt I feel about wanting to erase her from my life has contributed to my push-over personality. I really haven’t written any of this before & look forward to reading more about how other people cope. I can’t believe how much you all must relate.
Alicia:
The illness is not your mother’s fault, BUT she has chosen that she prefers the way she is to treatment that could normalize her relationships with others. Don’t feel bad about removing yourself as far as you need to in order to maintain your own mental stability. That may mean occasional phone calls, or none at all. I really do think that some types of mental illness are contagious.
Your response is really affirming… I feel good about having found your site and look forward to reading through it.
I have rarely talked about my mother’s condition. She is bipolar and a recovering alcoholic. I can’t honestly say whether or not she is taking medication for her bipolar disorder as she never gives me a straight answer. I will be 28 soon and have lived all of my life as my mother’s crutch. I have always been aware that my mother was not like other mothers I knew. At a young age I became my mother’s therapist, friend, and at times a substitute husband. And I realize now that I suffer from many control issues in my adult life due to her lack of boundaries. I cringe when I watch her interact with people in public. I have so much guilt for the way I feel. I love her so much, but she appears to be in a constant state of mania. I get easily agitated around her and often avoid situations where I have to introduce her to friends or co-workers. I actually feel panic when I am with her in public for fear I will run into someone I know and will have to introduce her. I am so ashamed to admit this, as I have never admitted this to anyone before, not even my husband who has seen his share of her erratic behavior. I live with so much guilt and humiliation that I struggle with. She urges me to have a baby as she says she needs purpose in her life again. But a part of me wonders if there will be a point when, like many of you, I will have to limit her interaction with my children. My sister, who is 9 years older than me, has basically disassociated her and her kids from our family. Since my mother does not get the attention she craves from her, she says things to me that my sister doesn’t like us, or doesn’t want a relationship with us. I would say my relationship with my sister has suffered because of my mother. I would love to find a way to get past all of the shame I feel. Thank you for the outlet to share. I am hoping to find a coping method that will allow me to be my authentic self, not someone always holding their breath.
That your mother ‘needs’ you to have a child to give her ‘purpose’ is troubling. It guarantees that eventually you will have to break off contact with her – assuming that you are emotionally strong enough to do it.
Since your sister has already been dealing with it, perhaps you should talk to her about your concerns and see what has been said/done to her. You’ll probably be surprised just how mean your Mom has been to her.
Your guilt, self doubt, shame, etc is what I mean when I say that mental illness can be contagious. You’ve ‘caught’ and are continuing to be exposed to your mother’s mental illness. Until you recognize it and can manage to inoculate yourself against it, your best choice may be to just separate yourself both emotionally and physically until you can.
In response to anonymous:
I too feel like I am holding my breath; during my limited time with my mother in public, I am in constant fear of seeing someone I know. I’ve felt this shame since I was a kid so I understand the hold it can have on all realms of your life.
Take namegoshere’s advice; 13 days ago I recieved a call from my mom, she told me she wasn’t taking a single med anymore and doing great, and proceeded with a slew of manic, strange statements. Because of the feedback I recieved from namegoshere and through other statements I read, I told my mother that I loved her and asked her not to contact me anymore until she was willing to take medication. Since then, she’s only called once at 6am, another time with a manic message asking me to bring her beer, and has also left a manic message on my aunt (her ex- sister in law)’s voicemail, having had no contact with my aunt for over 15 years. But, I haven’t called her back. This is big for me. I feel very guilty and nervous for her safety, and it’s been affecting my relationship with my boyfriend as well. But it’s a start. I think you should do it too- shouldn’t your own happiness come first at some point?
Thank you namegoeshere and Ali for your feedback. I am sorry I have not been able to respond, as my husband and I have been moving into a new home. I have been trying very hard to process all of the changes going on in my life at the moment.
As an update, after my posting on March 29th I had a very long talk with my mother. I told her that I can no longer pretend there is nothing wrong with our family. I told her that although she has disassociated herself with the term “bi-polar”, that doesn’t mean it isn’t real. I told her that I can no longer live my life pretending that our family is not suffering from this illness. She broke down and cried and thanked me for my courage for bring this up. She said she has noticed that her mania has been getting worse the last several years, but didn’t know who to turn to. She said that every time in her life she has tried to get help, people have put her in hospitals and threatened to take her children from her. This I know to be true as my father has tried to leave her many times. I can’t say that I blame him, but I’m sure this did not create much of a safe environment for my mother.
I had to admit to myself that, just like my father, I did not want to see the truth. I told my mother that I loved her and that I was worried about her, that I think she should see her doctor, or find a doctor she can trust if she doesn’t like the one she has been seeing.
So she has been going to the doctor twice a week for the last 2 weeks or so. She is working on cleaning out her house and stabilizing. She said the doctor has been taking her slowly off of the meds she has been taking, and I’m not sure what the purpose of this is. My husband, who is also bi polar, mentioned that the doctor may be trying to get a baseline for her to properly assess what stage she is in and what type of meds she needs. I am still uncomfortable asking my mother these questions so I haven’t asked. She is noticeably higher than normal, but she seems to be trying very hard to respect boundaries.
She has been calling at least once a day, or every other day and leaving messages. I call her back just to say hello and listen to her. I don’t know if I am being naive that maybe she will be able to get help. I’m scared.
Ali, I empathize with your feelings of guilt and nervousness. But try not to let it affect your relationship with your boyfriend. Practice communicating with him so that he will understand where you are coming from. I have been very lucky to find a partner who is very supportive in my struggle with my mother. But I learned very early on that if I am up front about my feelings to him, it is easier for him to support me when he knows what is going on. Just a suggestion. And I commend you on your strength to take a step towards protecting your boundaries.
Anonymous-
It is positive to hear that your mother has been responsive to your confrontation- I admire your bravery in spelling out the situation to her. I know it must be hard for you to feel optimism for her health, when the other side of you is expecting for things to turn sour. Try to stay positive- I hope there is peace in your life while she agrees to treatment.
As for my own venting:
My mom has been hospitalized 2 more times since my last posting on 4/2. She admits herself when she gets to the breaking point, yet she is uncooperative there and does not take her meds once she is released. Its become a terrible cycle- possibly the worst I’ve seen. Last weekend, she called and left a message from the hospital asking if she could come stay with me and my boyfriend, as she had nowhere to go. Upset over the situation, I called her back; she casually laughed about how the whole thing was cleared up with her boyfriend- she had “run away from home” but now she would be returning. Just 2 days ago, I got another message leaving me a new phone number- she has moved in with yet a new boyfriend and is “getting married”- one of her frequent claims. In her moving around over the years, my mom has managed to reduce her belongings to a trash bag, which eventually gets lost as well. She has apologized for again losing my photograph (which I resupply once or twice a year). As her lifestyle hits rock bottom, I find myself again feeling guilty. I haven’t returned the call to the new residence. But where do I draw the line between “this is the way she chooses to live”-which I can’t be a part of- and feeling like I’m selfish for not intervening?
Hi – I have read many of the blogs here and can feel the pain. I wish I had advice or recommendations, but I simply don’t. My situation is a little different. My ex-wife exhibits all the symptoms of a bi-polar person and the manic episodes are what drove me to divorce. Mind you, I went to many marriage counselling sessions which all ended the same. As soon as the therapists were on to her, she would clam up and stop going. One told me she was sick and should be hospitalized. I thought that was a little overboard at the time, but looking back it would have been the best thing. We have children (twins) and now they are in their early teens. I am re-married. When my ex is in a manic state, there is no reasoning, and she convinces my children that my house, marriage, etc. are all horrible things. I could go on and on (my stories are very similar to the ones I read hear). The worst part is that she is in denial (about the illness) and refuses to be seen by a therapist. Does anyone know of way to force her into an evaluation? I am at the end of my rope and the damage she is doing to our children is worstening!
I am grateful to have found this website. I am the Adult daughter of a mother with Bi-polar. Sigh – ” Don’t tell anyone about your Mother” my Father would always say. As a child I have been in 2 foster homes and one orphanage. I was born in 1965 and am still reminded that ” the Dr’s didn’t expect to see Mother alive after the tulmultuous ordeal I put her through”. To cut a long saga short I have been caught up in the cycle of being lulled into feeling safe with my mother only to be chewed up and spat out shortly thereafter. I am emotionally recovering from being kicked out of my mother’s house after my 4 year old was berated for not eating his dinner. I was suppose to stay the night in order to go to work as a get this – a psychiatrc registered nurse. My son and I slept in the guest room and everytime my son woke up and remembered why he was unhappy and cried my mother would storm in and scream at me for not keeping him quiet and for being an “ineffectual” Mother. This all eventuated in being asked to leave after being told my son was not ‘normal’. My 15 yr old daughter has been called a illegitimate so and so and deemed to be pregnant as I was told also by the time she is 16. This time I have decided to cut the ties as I feel so much ‘hate’ toward her. Am I allowed to use that word withou following up with disclaimers. I suppose I could say I have had enough and am so angry. I have helped this woman as one does only to have her complain bitterly about me to her Dr,s. The latest is I am the blame for her scarred kidneys ( years of Li use). The Doctors apparently put it down to her conflict with me or so I am told. I don’t think so. Anyway, I feel better for the vent. I take responsibility for remaining in this relationship and now for the sake of my children and myself it’s time to get out. She usually acts out around ‘Mother’s Day’ or other events of significance in order to bid for the empathy of others about how ‘bad’ her daughter is. Sigh.
In response to the above query about forced evaluation. What country are you in? Most Mental Health Acts have provision for compulsory examination if it is deemed in the interests of minimising harm to the Pt or their significant others or if their symptoms may result in vulnerability of self. Often there is paperwork where concerned significant others or the police can request an examination order. Phone your local facility and ask about examination orders.
Thank goodness I found this website. I am not alone. I wish I could say my mother is bipolar, but I think it is worse. I think she is bipolar, manic depressive, dual personality disorder and possibly has Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy just to name a few things. I really thought no one else would understand my issues with my mother. When I was young she was into Heroin (to hind the mental issues, I think) so I raised my younger (by 3.5 years) brother. I am now 29 with a daughter of my own, a loving husband, and a wonderful life. Mom lives 1200 miles away (thank god!), but last night was the straw that broke the camels back. I truly didn’t think I would ever witness something worse than her trying to choke my brother, but I did. She called me while I was out with the girls (like every other Tuesday night) and told me I needed to get home. She said she had talked to my three year old and she was worried my husband was abusing her. She kept telling me over and over that my daughter had told her she was scared and wanted her mommy and I should go home and kick the son of a *(#$^ out of the house. Can anyone tell me how to deal with the guilt I feel? I think about how much easier life will be when I get the phone call about the police finding her dead (she goes missing for weeks at a time). She will not get tested or take any meds, is OK for me to shut her out of my life? How do I deal with the back lash from my grandparents? I am just so glad I am not the only one who has a mother who is not a mother, but a bother!
Feeling the Pain:
I’m sorry for your situation, and especially for your girls. My daughter is in her mid-teens and has occasionally had a hard time dealing with it – and it’s her grandmother.
As to your question, the law varies from place to place. I know that where I am, there has to be a significant potential for harm to themselves or others before they can be involuntarily committed.
If you’re interested in getting custody of your daughters, that would probably be the simpler and easier route.
Sleepless:
It sounds like you figured out already that you need to separate yourself physically and emotionally from your mother. In light of what she is doing to your kids, hate isn’t too strong a word at all.
Struggling:
Bipolar and manic-depression are the same thing. And that’s quite a laundry list of things you’ve stuck her with. Bipolar is known to cause a host of other issues that can easily appear as distinct disorders, but are actually the result of bipolar. I think that when the brain runs too hot for too long, all sorts of weird stuff happens to it.
If your mother is telling you those things, do you have any idea what she is telling your kids? One of the early steps that we took was to make sure that all phone calls with her were monitored.
I think you could make your life much easier by limiting (or eliminating) contact with her, but that’s a choice that only you can make. As to the guilt… I have dealt with the same thing. Grieve for the person that she used to be that is no longer, but realize that what inhabits her body is no longer the same as it used to be. Think of it like a zombie movie, where one of the infected people calls out for someone to help them. It’s just a ploy to give them the extra seconds they need to get within striking distance.
Do your grandparents (her parents, I assume) have any clue as to what is going on? Does she ever call and rant to them? If so, they may have a decent understanding of your decision. If not, collect a few voicemails that will illustrate your point and play it for them if necessary. And remember, your primary responsibility is to your kids and their current and future wellbeing. Can you honestly say that continuing contact is worth the damage that’s occurring?
Thanks again for pioneering this awesome venue to connect. To Struggling – I have found that often some people in the midst of or managing Bipolar Affective Disorder (BPAD) tend to sexualise many areas in their life. From direct experience with my Mother, I was told from a young age that I would be pregnant before I reached 16 and often asked as a child; ‘ Has your Father done anything ‘untoward’ to you? Whether I said Yes or No was irrelevant, she had concluded he had. I was told by Mother that my daughter ( even as young as 3 ) was promiscuous or the other favourite word was ‘ precocious’. I remembered thinking how the heck could you label a 3 yr old as promiscuous? Then it became collectively apparent that Mother beleived ALL Males were after the one thing albeit at times she beleived that to be her mostly! It is also extremely difficult if your loved one lacks insight – another common thread that is interwoven with non-compliance of medications. I too remember and miss the image and scarce memories of my hilarious, spontaneous, energetic Mother. I have apportioned and archived those memories but also at the grand age of 42 realise that I am NOT responsible for her demeanour nor do I have to continually make allowances because of “the illness”. Sometimes this means lengthy stand offs because setting boundaries with a control merchant reaps repercussions. There are better life force fuels to run our tank on than those mixed with guilt, shame & blame.
Sleepless:
Many people with bipolar tend towards addictions (or struggle against them). Sexual addiction & promiscuity seem to be one manifestation of the ‘boundless energy’ that they have. Even if it is not acted upon, the drive is there.
All of us, not just people that are bipolar, tend to apply our own motives to others. It is much more obvious when someone is in a manic phase.
Guilt, shame, and blame seem to be common threads running through many of the experiences that people have with relatives with bipolar. I really wonder why this disorder seems to create such manipulative behavior – or is that backwards?
My mother in law is bipolar. She’s not to the same degree as your mother but still creates enough drama and conflict. When my husband and I first got married he couldn’t understand why I couldn’t just ignore her swings and the things she would say about me to him and others. “It’s just how my mom is” was something he would often say. Our situation has an additional complication factor as my husband was previously married and has two children from the marriage. My mother in law used to tell me she never really liked his ex. However, experience over the last three years has proven otherwise as she is “friends” with his ex. She has even put herself in the middle of situations between my husband and the ex due to the “best interests of the children” to the point my husband finally saw the need to put boundaries in place. I cannot begin to describe the number of disagreements we used to have concerning his mother. She has told his ex that I’m the reason he’s mean now, that I hate her and am keeping her from the child my husband and I have together. She always has a list of wrongs I’ve done when she is arguing with him about me. The true point is she has a fit when she doesn’t get her way and for some reason I am the person she chooses to focus on for attack. It’s escalated to the point that I have nothing to do with her unless they are visiting us (a few hours each visit about 4 times a year) and then I am polite and say as little as possible.
My father in law used to make up excuses for her and defend her behavior. Now even he is tired of her explosive dramas which occur every four to six months. She can’t hold onto money to the point father in law separated their accounts several years ago so he can control the flow of money to her. It doesn’t keep her from complaining about how deprived she is of things and heaven help you if she finds out you have something she doesn’t. She’ll nag you about it, how it works, do you like it, etc until she buys the same thing, which is quickly discarded out of boredom. If she gives you a present you hear about it for at least a year, she’ll tell you how thoughtful she is, how she does things like that from time to time and she’ll also bring it up as something to hold over your head when she wants something from you.
My mother in law seems to have some new illness every few months and will go from doctor to doctor until one tells her what she wants to hear or tells her enough she twists it to be what she wants. We tend to roll our eyes when she calls with her “devastating” diagnosis.
My mother and father thought I was exaggerating the things I was going through in the beginning. My mother told me I was overreacting and blowing things out of proportion and I needed to be more understanding. About a year ago my mother finally told me she thought my mother in law was crazy and she didn’t know how I had dealt with the things I had so far.
The latest drama erupted earlier this month. My husband finally told his mother he’d had enough. He told her his wife and children were his priority and she’d better learn to accept it or else she would find herself with very limited access to him and his family.
My challenge is finding a way to come to terms with the situation, how to handle the limited interactions I have with her and not let bitterness consume my heart in regards to her. I want my daughter to form her own opinions of her grandmother, what limited contact she has with her, without my opinion being what drives her opinion.
I know I rambled. I’m sorry for that. It’s just this is the first blog I’ve come across where I finally feel like there is someone out there who can understand what I’ve gone through and what faces me in the future. It’s a sad state when I’ve already thought of how I could counter any claims for grandparent’s rights to unsupervised visitation should something ever happen to my husband. Thank you for your blog and for the relief it is to know someone else understands.
Namegoeshere = That is a very good question. Has had me pondering for a few days. Is it because the mania is mostly underlying (ie not ever medicated correctly either by script or by non compliance) simmering until life stressors cause overflow? Is the sufferrer (the Adult child ) stuck at the emotional age where they encountered the abuse/triggering event? Is it because self responsibility is a rarity even in those of us not managing mania? Therefore it’s easier to blame others for personality & value deficits. This rescues the sufferrer from the embarrassment they may take on when they reflect on their behaviours during relapse. Or does this mood disorder inflict feelings of raging turbulence. I think that medication is only part of the treatment. Treatment combined with DBT and anger management may exist but from my experience as a mental health nurse I am yet to see such a treatment plan. Thanks for such a stimulating question on which I will keep pondering. Sincere Regards.
I have just recently been sucked back into an episode with my bipolar mother. I had broken off contact with her for 3 years which in turn created a distance between myself and other family members. After pressure from one of my family members, I agreed to let my mother back in my life only if she agreed to counseling. That was a year ago. Initially things were well. I laid down boundaries and she agreed to them. Gradually she began testing those boundaries. It became more difficult to enforce them, and it was becoming exhausting. What made matters worse is as I was trying to enforce boundaries, she would lie to other members of my family and they would become upset about the boundaries I was trying to enforce and about the lies she would tell them about me. She twists things and manipulates situations to set me up to be the bad guy. For instance, I told her I thought we should go to therapy and she told me absolutely not and then turned around and told other family members that she agreed to go to counseling. She lies and manipulates but since our stories are similiar, but just the roles are reversed, my family has told me that they think I am the problem and I am the one who is twisting and warping the truth. She is the one with bipolar and has not been in consistent therapy for about 3 years and has not had her meds checked since then. I am not even sure she is still taking her meds(I’ve asked and she says she is). I have been the one to be in therapy for the last 2 1/2 years with the same therapist. I have been criticized by my family for “running away” from her and I am at the point of that again b/c nothing I have tried changes the way she treats me. I seem to be the main recipient of her illness and projections as the rest of the family thinks the problem is just with me. I have even witnessed her reversing roles in her relays of situations so this does not surprise me but the rest of the family thinks I am the one who is crazy for suggesting it. They just can’t believe it I guess, but then, they are quick to believe these things of me. It is b/c she has done this to me my entire life and I think she has worked hard to discredit me so no one would believe me. It is frustrating and crazy-making. When she is not in my life, my life is peaceful and calm. When she is in my life, things are chaotic and turbulent with lots of drama. What is worse is she has been bad mouthing me to my teenager. This has put an incredible strain on my authority as a parent. I regret ever letting my mother back into our lives but it was done in good faith and hope. Now I am faced with having to seperate from her again and I worry about the impact this will have on my teenager as this seperation will also mean from the entire family.
I just wanted to clarify something in the above message. Initially my mom did agree to counseling. We went to 2 sessions. Boundaries were established, she agreed to them. After a year she was violating those boundaries. I suggested counseling again (a year later) and it was the second time she rufused and then told other members of the family that she had agreed to counseling.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this site and for sharing your stories – so similar to my own.
I was recently very nearly sucked in to trying to reconnect (out of guilt) with my mother. The guilt over ‘abandoning’ her, as I am her only child (and I did not abandon her – the truth is she finally succeeded in driving me away, and it took a lot, which I won’t go into here because the story doesn’t sound believable, but it’s true, the people that know me and her know it’s all true)…just this afternoon I was thinking, maybe I could get away with sending her a card and a gift on her birthday and holidays. Yeah. Then I’d be doing my ‘duty’ as a good daughter. But the truth is, ‘out of sight,out of mind’ is my only hope for safety from her. If she is thinking of me, she will start plotting…and unfortunately my stepdad left her with enough money to hire lawyers. (On teh plus side, she has already alienated several lawyers where she lives, as she is gaining a reputation for suing people for no reason.)
I especially appreciate being reminded that there is the danger of *her* trying to have *me* committed, as my mental health history (I have severe PTSD – go figure) is documented, while hers is not. I was also relieved to hear that my mother is not the only one who has done the Munchausen-by-prxy thing (again, I won’t go into the details, but it was quite horrible.)
Thank you all so, so much for sharing your stories. I so needed to be reminded that no, I don’t need to feel guilty for doing what I know I must do. Complete strangers lay guilt trips on me for not neing in contact with my ‘elderly’ (age 77) mother….but the people who know both of us, including my own children (who do love their grandmother), no longer blame me for not calling her.
Now I just need to srop blaming myself. The truth is, if I wasn’t scared to freaking death to contact her, I would contact her. I love her, and I miss her. But the ‘zombie’ thing, absolutely hits the nail on the head. It’s like, whoever my *real* mother is or ever was, she’s not in that body any more. The person who does inhabit that body, is (because she refuses to be treated for her illness), nothing less than a monster. (Aplogy for the strong term – but again, if I went into the details, you might not even believe it. Then again, sadly, some of you might.
I hope that now, I (and everyone posting here, or reading this) can rest easy in the knowledge that sometimes in life, we simply have to do what we have to do.
I hopemy mother finds some happiness. The logical part of me thinks she will actually be more likely to do that if she is not thinking about me, as she won’t go off plotting about me and my husband and our kids. (Our kids are grown, by the way – all are in contact with their grandmother and love her dearly, but they know now what she’s capable of, so they tend to keep their distance and not feel guilty about it.)
God bless.
Forestchild……
Wife of NGH…..I am sorry for your situation but you are in the best place now and don’t allow yourself to get sucked back into that other place.
If I were you….I would run and never look back. You do not owe your mother anything. Don’t allow anyone to guilt you into something you know would be destructive to your peace of mind. I seriously doubt there is anything you could tell any of us who have dealt with family members like this…..that wouldn’t be believable. YOU are not alone…..as you can tell. We understand the length and depth of malicious behavior that can be exhibited. The manipulations. The accusations.
It’s great that your children can be involved and recognize the dangers of too much with your mother. As of right now….our children are saying they want nothing to do with their grandmother, ever. They have been just as much a victim as my husband and I, my FIL and even my MIL. She is a victim of her own creation as is your mother. She has made herself the victim and is accusing you of being the victimizer. Don’t fall back into that trap. You wouldn’t go looking for a used needle off the streets to stick yourself with knowing the dangers of such an act. It’s like dodging a bullet. You’re not going to step into the line of fire if you have a perfectly good fox hole to lay low in….She’s the bullet….you’re the target.
The person you love and miss…..no longer exists. She is gone. You cannot blame yourself for her refusal to get treatment or for her bad behavior. If you feel you have to love this person…love her from a distance and love her as far away from her as you have to be.
Thank you for the encouragement. I need it so badly right now. Sometimes it’s all I can do not to call her….than it will be the bext day, and I can’t stand to look at her picture, for what it brings back.
(I am currently working on going back to school online to become a medical transcriptionost, as this sounds like something I could actually do in spite of my severe insomnia nad PTSD. I will probably have to work around those for the rest of my life.)
I wish her all the best – but please , away from me and my family.
I just don’t ant any more drama and pain from her.
God bless.
I’m laughing to myself right now, that you said ‘love her from as far away as you have to be’. I used to fantasize (and then it became plan) about putting a camper on my truck, and running away to Canada, because she wouldn’t be able to find me there.
I actually made it as far as putting a camper shell on the truck, just in case. (Couldn’t afford the whole camper.)
It got pretty extreme.
So weird to say that while us not being in contact breaks my heart – at the same time, not seeing her or talking ot her on the phone, has been nice. I never thought I’d have to say that….it’s just all very strange.
People just don’t talk about stuff like this, do they ?
To Forestchild – It’s a bit like ” Run Forest Run. Sounds like despite all your trauma you have maintained your sense of humour. I was told by Mother on the phone yesterday that after numerous investigations by Doctors for recent physical ailments, they and her have narrowed it down to quite simply ‘ conflict with the daughter’. Thats me btw. Yes the most recent bout of ulcers are my fault nothing to do with the ingestion of 30-40 nicobates per day. After hearing this remarkable news I told Mother that I was not prepared to take this on – I would not wear it and asked if she had ever heard of self-responsibility. She launched into this all stemming from me not calling on Mother’s day. Subsequently I terminated the call. I hear ghasps from the gallery lol. Three weeks ago my father’s second wife of 27 years was told she has advanced cancer with a dismal prognosis of 1-6 months. So I have been assisting with her cares. After I hung up on Mother I expected the usual mexican stand off or her partner to call and diss on me as he earns respite points from her wrath if he supports her in the denegration of myself. Mother not to be out done by someone who is genuinely physically unwell ( step mom) left a message on the answer machine saying she will be getting a camera down into her heart for further investigations and she ‘just thought I should know’. Perhaps this is because I terminated the call – will this latest ailment be put down to conflict with daughter? sigh. Interestingly my step-mom who is 62 had a mother similiar in behaviours and during our time recently when she discusses passing over her biggest concern was ” How will I cope with Mother when I get there?” Thats some trauma huh? I think I explained it when I said I am most certain behaviours like this are non-existant in the land of milk and honey. Anyway sorry for waffling and thanks again again for facilitating this site – it is unique and so therapeutic.
Wow. That’s heavy – not wnating to die because Mom will be on the other side. Whoa.
(Guess I’ve never really feared that one, because my dad’s already on the other side – and boy is he pissed at my mom.)
So, is your stepmom still with you ? Maybe it would help her, if she can think of other familiy members who ahve already passed – and are ‘normies’. (?)
I’ve also always assumed I was going to hell for being bad, while mom was going to heaven for being Baptist. (Not completely joking there.) I’ve had to completely re-learn faith and religion (or spirituality or whatever – these days I don’t really have a religion any more, which is a relief.) That falls under spiritual abuse, which is partly behind the reason I still feel like I should ‘be there’ for my mom. (Right. But do it from Canada, I guess.) (?)
I *have* feared in the past that if my mother dies before I do, she will try to haunt me. No joke there at all. (Kind of a moot point, though….as she’s doing a pretty good job of haunting me now, and she’s still alive.)
That’s what this feels like, really. Being haunted. It felt like a haunting while we were still in touch, and it feels like a haunting now. Cutting off contact, has given me some better days than I was having….but it hasn’t taken away this feeling of being haunted, hounded, and I don’t know if anything ever will.
But again….that’s really heavy, for your stepmom to fear passing on, for fear of meeting her mother again. WOW.
Thank you for sharing that – it was really validating somehow. (Apologies for the pop-psych terms, but I don’t know any better way to say that.)
Wife of NGH here….
Forestchild…maybe they should talk about it. The more you can get out the less you are holding in…..I can understand extreme…I’ve been pushing for Alaska or Europe myself…:-)
Being Baptist won’t get your mom to heaven. You are not commanded to be there for your mom….I know and my husband would tell you the same thing. Our Pastor helped him to see the difference between honoring his parents and screwing up our family because his mother felt she should come first. I don’t think you want to hear me preaching…..There is only one way to heaven and unless your mom’s done that…She won’t be there….
My husband’s mom left us a message once that she was a Christian and since we didn’t want to see her and she was going to heaven…where did that mean we were going to be….LOL. I had to laugh at that one…..
It does feel like you are being haunted at times…..So…when are you moving to Canada…:-)
Forest I really get a good chuckle from your input. Thats without disrespect. I too have often wondered if Mother would come back and haunt me, I am sure she will and I wonder if she is looking forward to it? I think Step Mom from my previous post is looking forward to catching up with her cat who died – Now lets not go there. I am trying to mentally prepare myself to ring mum back and offer her a spot on my daughters Bebo page for the pictures of her heart. One does tend to develop a cynical humour after encountering years of non sensical chaos. Thanks again all. Warm regards and I look forward to reading more posts.
Wife of NGH….
Sleepless….I would strongly encourage you to not talk to your mother anymore at all….period. Don’t do it to yourself.
I have started back to counseling. I had my own issues with childhood abuse. Sexually molested beginning at age 3-13, physically abused growing up with a stepmother. A few other things to throw in the mix. For the most part I have done my healing. It was solely due to my faith that I came out of it as strong as I did. My MIL is a trigger for me. I have talked with my counselor about my insane “moth to the flame” need to hear her repulsive messages. How upset I get and how I take them to heart. No matter what we KNOW…intellectually…what they say to us is pure and utter rubbish….there is just enough…a grain, molecule or atom of truth that we believe it. SMACK me now!!!
I have promised my self that I won’t go out to the youtube link and listen to anymore of those messages. I hadn’t heard them…
The counselor said to me that I go out to listen because I need to hear how bad I think I am. Because of the years of being beat down…even though part of me knows it isn’t the truth…I can’t believe that it isn’t so I must be as bad as she says I am. Hence the need to listen. I am NOT listening anymore and I am not even close to the person she describes….my hubby can vouch for that one…:-) Don’t fall into that trap…..
Your poor step mom to fear death thinking she would have to face someone like that…..I am so sorry….Tell her to remember that we are given the promise of a new body…not one that is diseased whether it be mentally or physically. “We shall all be changed…I Corinthians 15:51,53″ If this person did find themselves in heaven…according to that, they won’t be the same.
I am sorry for this dear women and hope that one day you will be able to not pick up the phone and not feel guilty over not answering.
I will be thinking of both of you……..
Wow Wifeofngh – powerful words that actually take shape to fit the puzzle. I believe to endure life connected to someone with these mood disorders either directly as in Mother or MIL fosters resilience. You are resilient and faith I think, personally, strengthens this resilience. You know I am sick literally of picking up a ‘private’ number on caller ID – can’t even screen her calls, quite comical really I even get blamed for the cost I incur her when I am not home and my phone goes to message bank. Usually the message goes ” WHERE THE @#*% ARE YOU”?. I have described Mother as the girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead when she was nice she was very very nice when she was not she was horrid. Wifeofngh, I am 42 years old and sometimes still feel she has the power to reduce me to a child ego state which of course I am working on. I know the power lies with me. My Mother has so much hate toward me that I often wonder why she bothers.
I am sorry to hear that your journey was turbulent during childhood and think your marvellous for rediscovering and repositioning yourself with faith and counselling. Your MIL like my Mother are awesome projectionists – they feel so badly about themselves that they want to project onto us their own distorted sense of self and tenacious at it they are! Sometimes I have felt like I was living in some kind of psychological thriller not unlike the bold and the beautiful. Mother’s version – Let’s scold and you’re not beautiful! Sigh. The sigh is to remember to breath.
Moth to the flame is a good description also like a rabbit stunned by the headlights – I knew the car was coming but I just had to go check. *smile*. Good for you for not listening – I went to the tube and it was disturbingly familiar to listen to. Isnt it funny – it is guilt – somewhere in me – well quite locatable really – Is this thought process – ” You are a bad person if you don’t ring, there you are giving your daughterly love to a step mom not your birth mother, when she needs you too, what kind of a person are you. Mother: See I told you all she was dispicable rah rah rah..sigh. I guess I just have to remind myself to be authentic, that I am not such a bad person as much as I am not a puppet on her strings. Wifeofngt, I think the grain, atom and molecule are merely their radars honing in on our vulnerable bits. Hey and I am here to remind you – no more SMACKING of self.
I am happy for you and your husband that you have each other to share the load. I tell you it was so empowering and frightening to tell Mother I totally deflect myself as the cause of your illness. Perhaps I should remind her to read more ‘Louise Hayes’? Self responsibility and all that Jazz. Well my comrades – well it is a bit like the Russian front at times – thanks again for this site. I believe God thought ok here is some respite when he guided me here. Warmest regards and hey – Keep Breathing All.
Dear WifeofNGH -
I do hope there comes a day when people talk about what it’s really like to live with someone who is mentally ill – and what the symptoms of mental illness look like, whether or not there has been a diagnosis (yet – or ever). As a child, I didn’t realize that my mom, and also her sister who helped raise me, were both mentally ill. I just thought my family was weird, and I was bad.
It’s good to be able to share these stories now. Not good to *dwell* on them, there’s a difference….these days I’m working on a mantra for when my thoughts wander back to my childhood, or to my earlier adulthood…..back to bad places. Hoping to do some further work on bringing myself back to more positive things. (It takes a while. But, living htorugh all that, also took a while.)
It’s very helpful to talk about it here….and kind of leave it here, or leave it in my art therapy notebook. I’m getting into meditation, and (slowly) into yoga and a big of martial arts these days. Also way into studying nature…..well let’s just tell the truth, I’m turning n to a big hippie (minus the pot).
Don’t know if I’ll ever get to Canada (although visiting there is still a goal, I hear it’s very beautiful). My husband and I do have a daughter in Portland, Or., however….so maybe when he retires in four years, we’ll be moving there, or at least close. (It’s also very beautiful countryside up there.)
The camper, or else a small RV, is still a definite goal, by the way. No better way to clear my head of mom, than get out in the woods and sleep under the stars. Of all the places in my life where she hangs around and haunts me, the woods is not one of them.
(Sent her a small book for her birthday, with a note in it. I had to, to get some relief from my own insides. That moth to the flame thing. Funny we’re talking about flame, and the only way I feel safe contacting her, is on paper. Maybe there’s something to that.)
Our youngest son was living with her recently (yeeek), but we heard tonight that he’s back in town. I’m relieved for him….and certain that he learned a lot while he was there. Out of my three children, he was the one who didn’t understand why I coudln’t be in touch with Gramma. Then he moved in with her to “help take care of her” (she’s 77 and in perfect health, regularly drives cross-country and flies to Alaska and Hawaii….which puts Alaska out of my fantasies). Anyway, the whole time my son was “living’ there, he spent almost every night and day couch-surfing at friends’ houses. He found out Gramma isn’t so easy to be around, after all.
I’m sure he still loves her, and rightly so (in fact, if nothing’s changed too drastically, he adores her – like many bipolars, when she’s not in one of her moods, she can be fascinating)….but he found out that living with her is a whole different can of worms.
It’s exhausting, writing this stuff. I’ve so needed to get it out….but it’s like having teeth pulled.
Thank you, all on the group, for letting me write it, though.
Dear Sleepless -
I can relate about not being able to screen your calls. When my husband and I had a landline, we tried getting caller ID…so my mom took to buying phone cards that would show up as coming from a different state. I’m remembering one in particular that said ‘Colorado’. She hadn’t even been to Colorado in years, so I don’t know how she pulled that one off, but she did it.
Nowdays we have cell phones. My mom calls our kids, and they call her, but she doesn’t have my husband’s number or mine. Our phones are pre-paid, so if she gets our number’s we’ll be able to get new phones.
I’ve been to a few support groups, and read some books, about how to deal with a mentally ill relative…..but I never heard it mentioned that it might be perfectly necessary to go to these lengths for emotional safety. And the (uninvited) reactions of acquaintances and sometimes complete strangers, who don’t know the whole story but who want to add their two cents’ worth, is *very* unhelpful.
People need to know that, sometimes it just takes what it takes, and extreme situations absolutely can call for extreme measures. I’ve stopped feeling guilty about not speaking to my mother on the phone or seeing her in person, as it gives me Viet Nam-style flashbacks to do so. I do still feel guilty if I don’t send her cards and gifts (obviously, as I just sent her a gift)…..but who knows where that will go. Meanwhile, it just is what it is.
Incidentally, I joined the Army at age 20….and it was there that I learned I had post-traumatic stress. Kind of ironic, that a soldier’s disorder kept me from actually being a soldier. It was a good experience, though….and it was there that I received my first diagnosis, and the only one that has continued to fit me throughout the years. I was later diagnosed as bipolar myself – but it turned out to be incorrect, that the mania I was experiencing was due to the antidepressant drug Effexor. I will *never* touch that stuff again, if I have anything at all to say about it!
Anyway. That’s the scoop. Good luck with the phone thing…..and with every other one of those “things” that family members of the mentally ill get to deal with.
Hey, guys, I might have to leave this group for a while. I had a steady stream of horrible nightmares last night (and this morning, after moving out onto the couch) – all ivbolved my mother, and toys.
Don’t know if it’s the fact that I sent her a gift, or that I’ve been talking about her so much. (Or that I wore a nicotine patch to bed – but I’ve done that before.) If it turns out to be this site, I’m going ot have to back off for a while, becuase I’m simply thinking about her too much. (Which is to day, differently – as I think about her all the time anyway. Ther’s no getting around that.)
If any of you have the same problem, there’s medication called Prazocin that helps with nightmares, It’s a hi8gh blood pressure med – they discovered this side-effect in a hospital for Viet Nam vets. I’ve been off it a while, but if this keeps up, I’m going ot ask the doc for some more. Just thought I’d share that with you.
If you don’t hear from me for a while, I send you all my best. If I figure it out that the mightmares weren’t triggered by this
site, I’ll be back.
(This PTSD thing is very real. They don’t really discuss that in those books and groups about how to deal with a mentally ill relative, either – not unless someting has changed. I hope it’s changed. The best I got was the ususal, “Nurture yourself, take care of yourself, long walks, bubble baths,” type thing, and some vague “set boundaries and enforce them.” That asn’t good enough. This stuff is real, PTSD requires more than walks and bubble baths, and the mentally could usually give a hoot about boundaries.
(When I do come back, let’s write a book, if somebody isn’t already. Not kidding.)
Much love, Forestchild
Boy, did I almost make a mistake there.
I know now, that the nightmares are about my having sent my mother a birthday present. (We’ve been out of contact for over five years, save one or maybe two phone conversations and one exchange of threatening legal letters.)
Now, I’m in conflict….it’s like, almost all of me knows not to get in any closer contact with her. (My conscience, is certainly salved.) But there’s this one part of myself still holding on to this fantasy….in the eighties, someone would probably have called it my Inner Chiild (remember that…?), that keeps dreaming of letting bygones be bygones, and spending time with mom while she’s still with me here on earth.
The only trouble with that is, bygones are not bygones. I’m not talking about past abuse here (and boy, there is some….but it is past)….I’m talking present day mental and emotional (and possibly even physical) danger. (Certainly, my own former suicidality was a physical danger….one could argue that many ways, but I am no longer in contact with mom, and I no longer wish for death, go figure).
I do think I need to keep reading and posting here, so I don’t forget that, in her illness, mom still likes to torment me. Not being a smart-aleck there, either…..it’s a you’d-have-to-be-there thing, but I’ve seen and heard her plainly take some delight in saying very upsetting things to me, lying to me…..just, managing to get me upset. I need to remember that, for my own health – as I *am* human, and can only take so much.
Of course, it makes sense that I’m having nightmares right now. Every logical part of my brain, is going “oh God no please not this again!”
I can’t let myself go there, thinking that I could have a relationship with her. Not the way she is, not as abusive as she is. (She once lied and told me she’d had surgery for bladder cancer, when what she’d had was a bladder tuck. That sort of thing. Constantly. Don’t need to go into further details – but I needed to write that, remind myself. That kind of thing, is every day, in and out.)
I have a cousin, the daughter of my (also mentally ill) aunt who helped raise me when my mom was working. My cousin lived with her mother, up until her mother died. Then she promptly married a physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually very abusive youth pastor. My cousin seems to not know when she is being abused. Hanging on to that relationship with her mother, my aunt, so deeply affected the rest of her life.
And as I sit here, I’m looking at three photos of myself right now, so drugged out on psych meds that in them, I look like a zombie…in fact, in one, I look dead. If I got back into a relationship with my mother again, I would have to take those kinds of meds again, to deal with the depression and the flashbacks.
It’s a hell of a choice to have to make, but it really did come down to me or her, and I chose to save myself. Tht’s still the choice I have to make, realistically. I know we’re often told to “detach”….but as human beings there is a certain amount of detachment from loved ones, that I think it’s unrealistic to expect. I simply can not take that constant emotional pounding from my mother, and be unaffected by it between our conversations.
I need to rememebr that, really get it all the way down inside. Then the nightmares will slow down and stop, I won’t have to take medication for them….it’s happened before. Having had time to think about it (and read earlier journal entries), those nightmares were simply my brain sending me a distress signal, that I was putting myself in danger.
Time I got my life and health back and kept them, instead of shoving more pill down my throat in order to appease the illness that is not mine, but my mother’s.
On a much healthier note, I finished writing a novel today, my husband is very excited for me around this, and we plan to go camping this weekend.
I need to get a good plan going to deal with flashbacks and intrusive disturbing memories – and get on with life. My mother’s illness has taken the front half of my life, but the second act can still be mine, there’s still a chance.
Just a quick note to say Hi to all. Forest, thanks for sharing. Knowing that others can genuinely empathise is a significant relief. As I mentioned in earlier posts my step mom is fighting cancer now and each day I do lymphatic drainage, change dressings, maintain picc lines etc and she mostly says the same things to me such as – Thank you, appreciate this, when you can etc. Well on the other branch of the family tree, Mother has logged the number of Drs appts since January – 18 in total. She is in the public system and one Dr checks the kidneys, one the mental state, one the colon, one the endoscopy, the GP is included etc. Well the camera went into the heart today- actually later I find out it’s an endoscopy but “camera in the heart sounds way more dramatic. She had left me a message saying she was ‘ depressed’. So I call back saying why are you depressed – Well whoa..YOU WOULD BE TOO IF YOU HAD BEEN THROUGH WHAT I HAVE BEEN THROUGH….rah rah rah so suddenly again it became my problem. Now after the multi million itrusive investigations Mother has had, she tells me she is FINE – which in other terms has been known as an annogram for F = F^%#@ ed Up, I = Insecure, N = Neurotic and E = emotionally unstable. So when she said she was fine I smiled – bad but I smiled. But even after finding out she is fine and that 3 Doctors have confirmed that her daughter (me) is the primary contributing factor she must still carry on with the worry of it all. So her behaviours really stand out compared to my step mom who has a gravely serious illness, and is gracious about it. Step mom has not whined, self-pitied, nothing whereas Mother cannot stop complaining about NOTHING. sigh.
Forest – I describe dreams as daily events and thoughts that when we slumber go into a huge sieve and the sieve is shaken so all those thoughts come out jumbled up and take the form as they fall. So usually if we think about it we can trace weird dreams back to something we processed within the last 24-72 hours. In saying that there is significant research that says nicotine patches give people rather vivid & disturbing dreams. Remember though that you have been traumatised and within the healing is confrontation – reminds me of a Joyce Myer saying – ” Pruned if you do and Pruned if you don’t”. Venting safely is healing. It’s also in reminding ouselves that even though our Mothers have endeavoured to control us as extensions of themselves -remember this – OUR MOTHERS PROJECTIONS, COMMENTS ETC DO NOT DEFINE US NOR CAN THEY ALTER OUR ESSENCE. In caps sorry just to emphasise that.
We are authentically individual just that a significant caregiver has misused their power over us. But now as Women we are free when we recognise that as an Adult the power now lies with us. Yes it hurt and not the most colourful kalaidescope of images to reflect on but we can make choices now of self preservation.
To Mother I say ;
” Yes you say you did the best you could and I believe that for you, we got through it, and now Mum you know what? I forgive myself for thinking I did anything wrong. I forgive you for saying I did. I am sorry that like any other teenager I may have been a right so and so but I was on cue with my developing age. Thanks for an interesting childhood, I am sorry you did not believe in yourself enough to accept and embrace me as a beautiful developing young woman but rather as a threat to your femininity. I have apportioned a compartment in my heart for you where I remember fun times, moments of sanity and random acts of love. Thank you for your maternal intentions. Mother I love you but I choose to disengage for now as I am not the blame nor the cause and will never be the cure.”
Not quite sure how the rest of that goes just yet but it will come.
Congrats Forest for finishing your novel – have a wonderful time camping. Choose a word for the flashbacks like one word eg Enough, out, or a few words like ” I am having a flashback and this is in accordance with my trauma but now I am ready to file you in an album and archive you. If you reappear that’s ok but I will remind you, you now belong in the archives of experiences that have enhanced and formed my most marvellous character today”
Onwards and upwards I say. Live Love and Laugh…and most of all keep breathing!
Warm regards
Sleepless
I meant to say – Thanks again to the facilitators of this site. This site has been gounds for a turning point for me. Much Love and appreciation.
If this isn’t misuse of this site, amy I make a prayer request for my son, Ross Redfield, age 21 ? He’s very depressd, and I’m afraid he will commit suicide.
(If this *is* a misuse of this site, I apologize, and will certainly understand if this doesn’t get posted. I value this site, and don’t want to misuse it.)
Thank you
Dear Sleepless -
I have just read your post, and will read it agiin in the morning when I can better respond to it.
Your step mom does sound so gracious – I don’t think you could have picked a better word. I’m so sorry you’re having to go through all this with her right now…..thinking she’s very lucky to have you there.
I hope you are giving yourself some points for graciousness, as you are at her side when you have every excuse not to be up to the challenge. May God, whoever or whatever God really is, bless you for it.
It is amazing, the stark differences in people sometimes, dealing with them both at the same time.
It sounds as if you may have chosen your role model, as far as graciousness goes. That’s a trait I myself aspire to.
Will answer your post more tomorrow, right now it’s about three a.m. and I’m pretty fuzzy in the head.
I hope you’re getting enough rest, and things are going as smoothly for you as possible.
I hope your mother leaves you alone for a while, and gives you a break – hope that wasn’t put wrongly. (Thinking of waht I would need from my own mother, in a similar situation. A break, would definitely be it.)
God bless you for what you’re dooing, being there for your step mom right now. I hope that when my time comes, I’m so lucky as to have someone at my side like that.
Forest I am happy for wife of namegoeshere to give you my email address if you need some further ventilation about your son. He was most certainly in my prayers tonight.
Sincerely
Sleepless
Dear Sleepless -
Thank you. I would love some e-mailcontacts, people I can keepin touch with, and reserve tis site for staying more on topic….I am so thankful to whoever started this site.
Thank you for the offer. Should I post my e-mail address here, do you think ? Or, how is this going to happen ? Not quite understanding the logistics of it all. My brain is in a fog this morning.)
However it works out, thank you for the offer.
Thank you, any and every one, who prays for my son. I appreciate it so much. In feeling so helpless to do anything for him, praying and asking others to pray makes me able to tell myself that there is still some hope.
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your prayers. Thank you.
Wife of NGH…..
Sleepless and Forestchild…..
I just sent you both an email with the other’s email address….
It would be best to not post it publicly unless you want the rest of the World Wide Web to know it…..
Remember this is not private but open to the public…..Just so you don’t accidentally put something in you don’t want made public.
Oh…and I added your son’s name to my prayer journal….(((hugs)))
Thank you, wifeofNHG. Appreciate it very much.
God bless.
As of yesterday afternoon, my son seemed to be doing better. (thanks to all for prayers.)
My husband just admitted he thinks my son ‘may be bipolar’. I don’t think it’s a maybe. I’ve thought this about him since right after he graduated high school.
If he is, I just hope somebody catches it and he gets on medication.
I’ve been diagnosed bipolar myself – but also been diagnosed a lot of other things. Don’t think bipolar really fits – as when I was manic, I was on (and then coming off) Effexor. (Which will make anybody crazy.) But, after watching mom, if it turns out I really am bipolar, I’ll take the medications even though I hate them, rather than wreck everybody’s life that gets near me.
So, we’ll see how this goes.
My husband and I are going to move to a 3-bedroom apartment, so we will always have a ‘guest room.” That’s spelled home base for our son. (Of course, if his brother or sister or both need to crash here also, he’ll just have to scoot over and hang up a blanket.)
Dear Sleepless -
Thinking of you, hope to hear soon how your step mom is doing and how you’re doing.
May the gods of happy sedation send a big dose to your mother, so she’ll be nice and happy and okay, but give you a break. Maybe the gods of nitrous oxide, or something. (?)
(Well it’s a thought.)
May they send a dose to my mother while they’re at it. Make her all sparkly-happy, only thinking about good stuff. That would be nice.
(I wouldn’t mind a whiff of that myself. Not the real stuff – but the fantasy stuff I’m picturing. Just some happy air full of positive vibes, if it came floating by, I’d take it.)
Forestchild:
I’ve often mentioned the unfortunate lack of tranquilizer darts loaded with thorazine. You didn’t hear it from me, but canned whipped cream is pressurized with nitrous oxide….
Already knew about the whipped cream. (Never done it – only had nitrous when there was a dentist involved.)
Hm…how to put together the dart thing and the wipped cream thing. (Whipped cream is not that expensive, and I’ve got pretty good aim….)
Not a bad idea.
Just saw my son, at my older son’s house….reminding me very much of mom. He’s in no way despondent (at the moment)….standoffish and somewhat hostile to everybody, talking about his next road trip. (The solution to most then when I was growing up was to move, sometimes cross country…..and mom has wondered why I feel like she hates me, during her moments when she wasn’t acting like she hated me.)
This is giving me second thoughts about housing this kid. I could live with a depressed person. I can not live with that smouldering manic hostility. Wondering now, if he moved in, would I always be waiting for the next bad thing that he arranged to happen.
Going to talk to Rusty about this, then get back on here and listen to my brain rattle until I start making sense.
Okay, more brainrattle.
Does anybody on this group have a bipolar child…?
(Might not be what’s up with this boy…but it’s really looking like it.)
Thing that scares me…I’ve heard him come home all hostile towards somebody else…and sound like mom. (No. No no no.) I mean…I make sarcastic jokes. I don’t go out and get in fights. My son does – and my mother does. (Did. Does. She’s in her seventies, and recently chased a neighbor out of her house. Then the story circulated that she pulled a gun on the neighbor. Don’t know whether to think she really pulled the gun…or just started the rumor. Either, would be absolutely like her.)
People that don’t know me (and her), don’t believe me when I say things like that. Getting the feeling I’ll be believed on this group….
Where I’m going is, my depressed son is also violent at times.
I need to stop with him, at this point. Thank you all for your prayers and thoughts….this is the condition the boy is in, which feels better to me than having him suicidal….but only because I can get away from him and not watch him systematically destroy himself. Again, like his grandmother. Only she tends to avoid self-destruction, by finding ways to harm others. (People who are still in her life are starting to take me a little more seriously about that, now that I have withdrawn from the picture. When I’m not her target, somebody else is.)
If this kid is like mom, please God I hope he doesn’t ahve my grandchild and then treat it badly, I couldn’t watch that….
But hey. I don’t have any grandchildren. What I’ve got is the co-bipolar headspin (for lack of a better term.) That’s when you’ve been around a loved one who is just so out there, that you end up sounding like I sound right now.
Going to go take a bath. And buy osme canned whip cream. (Joking. That was a joke. No whipped cream – jsut the bath. Please pardon the sarcasm)
I don’t think that third bedroom is happening right away. I think me back in reality, is happening.
Thank you all for letting me rant, I owe you about eight hundred dollars in therapy bills jsut for today. You’re the best, God bless you.
Sorry, I’m not done. But I’m back on topic.
Remembering mom’s latest suicide threats (that I knwo of – this was when my stepdad was still alive. Right after he died and I didn’t have to worry about him, was when I cut ties with her, because I had to.)
She told me she had made a suicide pact with my stepdad, that if they had to go in a nursing home they would kill each other, die together, they had it all planned.
My stepdad was a very nice Mormon gentleman – always say (lightly but not really joking here) that if he didn’t get into heaven, nobody’s going. (Think he was the most deserving adult human male I’ve ever met. I was taught that Mormons don’t go to heaven…but I was taught a lot of things I don’t buy.)
Anyway. I mentioned this to my stepdad and he totally freaked, said there was no way he would ever kill anyone including himself and what was I talking about, so I knew then that this was another one of mom’s….well, they’re called lies, aren’t they ? It might have been true in her head…but I really don’t think so, as she instantly dropped it.
The corker is, earlier that same month, might have been the same week, she was telling me my stepdad was going downhill mentally and it was “getting time to put him in a home”.
Also around that time….and after I had overdosed three times and finally had my stomach pumped (which got my attention – I never went there again!), mom was showing me all the pills that were either his and hers or just his, anyway, she said, “Sometimes I feel like just taking all of them.” I said, “Ever had your stomach pumped, mom ? Why don’t you go ahead and try that.” She said, “I was only kidding – but you know, sometimes you feel like it.” (She had played the sympathy card one too many times – the game was over at that point.)
I *hope* this suicide thing is just my son playing the sympathy card. From the looks of him today, it might be – again, I hope so. Because I know how to get away from people if I have to – and I do run out of sympathy at some point. Don’t run out of love….but sympathy thing, has its bottom.
Just another story about mom – another concrete reminder of exactly why I can’t be around her at this point. (Most people can’t be around her. She’s quite lonely, and complains about it. Nothing I can do about this….it got to the point of, jump ship and save myself.)
God.
If I actually am bipolar, I’ll be happy to take Lithium and be sluggish and gain weight. No problem.
Forestchild:
If you ever have legal proof that your son wanted to commit suicide (voicemail, email, papers, etc.) then you should take that to social services or the hospital. They will put you in contact with the right people. Once the legal system is involved, they might force him into counseling and treatment. Of course you would be hated for that, but I don’t think that’s anything new.
I know that if my Mom ever said that she was planning on hurting herself or someone else, I’d have no problem turning the evidence over. It would help Dad much more than it would me.
Thank you. Point taken.
As far as mom – she has always been *very* careful about leaving evidence of her real intentions.
Examples: I told an aunt I couldn’t stand to talk to her, was thinking of writing instead, shortly before I stopped contact. My mother called me and said, “If you can’t call, don’t write.” (With good reason! She might get caught up with!) It came down to my husband and myself considering getting (mind blank) oh, loudspeaker on our phone – also tapping the phone line. So someone would be aware of what she was saying, besides me.
As a child, of course, this was worse. My mother would regularly tell me things, and when I repeated what I had just heard her say, demand to know where I heard such a thing. (She also did this to my father, who had quit drinking many years earlier. He started sipping a lot of cough syrup.)
One particular beating was due to catching her in a bold-faced lie.
(Sorry….reminiscing.)
My point is, if I were in contact with my mother, I doubt I would ever be a good enough detective to prove some of the things she would tell *only* me. (I suppose it was a special privelege in reverse.)
My son, is an internet junkie – so I doubt he would be as slippery.
If it comes to this kind of crisis again, I may go investigating. At this point, I think he may have been having bouts of the kind of depression that involve much self-pity…..and laying it on very thick to my daughter, who then passed it on to me, and also laying it on thick to me when we spoke on the phone. (There’s that phone thing again. That lost tome of voice.)
My older son, never bought it. He’s immune to “the voice”. (Maybe I should learn to text-message my yougest….?)
I still only feel safe contacting my mother, if it’s in writing. She still doesn’t want to write.
What you just told me, I think she has known for a long time.
(Then there was her stealing and saving my letters to and from other people, diary entries….but I’ve been on here quite a bit, so will save that for another time. But there *is* a great deal of irony there….)
Thank you for the sugestion. Especially where my son is concerned. It’s much appreciated – can’t tell you how appreciated it is.
Forestchild:
Sounds like you have enough material for a blog of your own! Why don’t you start one? It can be done anonymously, as this one is.
It’s not very hard to record conversations, most MP3 players have that feature.
Recording phone calls is a bit more difficult and can cost $50-150 to do. Laws differ from state to state as well, and if you live in a 2-party state, you’re better off not doing it. However, the law just means that cocnversations aren’t legal as evidence, but they can be used to ‘help’ someone who is suicidal.
(Embarrassed) I do have a blog, elsewhere.
Wrote a bit much, didn’t I ? Sorry.
Won’t be doing any telephone wiretapping now – as I no talk to mom on the phone, so don’t have to go into that kind of thinking. (Big relief from what it used to be.)
This will be my last July 7 post here – apologize for monopilzing. Thank all for your graciousness.
Experience with mom: I realized today, while blogging, how scared I am that she’ll write now that I sent her a birthday gift…and gave her my PO box. I may change PO boxes. (I’m afraid of being sucked back in, by way of sympathy for her….whcih I do have. If she feels unloved by me, it’s not my fault – she is not unloved. I’m just scared, and for good reason.)
Had been thinking of trying out sending her three gifts a year, and allowing her to write, writing briefly back just to give her some attention. Thinking, Mother’s Day, her birthday, and Christmas…maybe she’d let me get away with that, and not hone in on me as a target.
Now I’m thinking, two gifts a year. Christmas, and Mothers Day/birhday. (They’re close together.) Also thinking of something I almost never do, because it’s a form of lying….renting a mail box temporarily, sending her gifts from there, telling her this is my new address…..and then if she wtites to my regular PO box, not reading her letters. Keeping them unopened. (Think paper trail here.)
This bipolar thing, is sad. I’d like to give her what she wants, some contact….but I know what I’m in for if I do. If she’d back off at all, if I could trust her even a little, I’d give her what she wants….not *as much* as she wants (there’s never enough) or the *way* she wants is (daughter equals target), but I would stay in touch.
Part of what has led to the gift-giving urge, is being exposed to twelve-step programs, wanting to have my amends made. (And, I have done some emotional harm to her.) Unexpectedly, right now I feel relieved around that. I’m making all the amends I can safely make. Unsafe amends are not reasonable – as far as I’m concerned. Other people that I know, feel differently around that amends thing…..and you know what, they’re just going to have to feel differently. I get to feel safe.
Forestchild:
It sounds like your mother is like my mother, and you said ‘nothing is ever good enough’. I realized that fairly early (middle school age) and stopped trying to please her at all. If what I did was good, then her opinion of it really didn’t matter.
One of the examples I have is in 10th grade science class. I enjoyed biology, and nearly always made the highest grade on the tests. I never studied for them, it just made sense. On one occasion, I got an 89. Mom spent an hour telling me that I could obviously do better and was a real disappointment to her, but I just blew her off. What she didn’t know is that my 89 was the highest grade on that test, and the next highest was an 83. I didn’t tell her that, I knew by then that it really wouldn’t have mattered anyway.
A quote I heard recently really sums up what you need to internalize – ‘I will never live for the sake of another, or require that another live for me’. Probably a poor paraphrase, but it works. You are responsible for yourself, and can not pass that responsibility off. If married, you may (and should, IMHO) voluntarily place your spouse’s benefit above your own. The same applies to minor dependent children, with the caveat that what they ‘want’ and what they ‘need’ are not the same thing. Your job as parent is to raise them, not to make them happy.
Another quote, I think from the same book, is ‘guilt is a rope that wears thin’. Mom’s guilt rope frayed and broke long ago, mostly due to overuse. I’m sure your mother’s is at or near that point.
I am at work so do not have time to read all of the posts. Can someone help me? I am the child of a bipolar mother who died a few years ago from a brain hemorrhage at 63 after taking a fall. Anyhow, I am married 19 years with 2 kids. My problem: (yes, I have seen a therapist for years) Whenever my husband’s attention is diverted from me by some other type of relationship with others (union meeting, long talks on phone re: hobby, etc.) I feel abandoned and threatened. I complain, we fight, I cry. I cannot control this. It is a feeling deep inside like I am going to lose him. It has made for some stormy times in our marriage, believe me. It is a deep-seated insecurity. I can try to do something rational like go outside and garden, talk a walk, or drive, but I am miserable the whole time and feel like I have to cling to him. I would rather be in his arms. If he is mad at me and needs some time to be alone, I bother him and bother him. I know this is related to abandonment when my mom was hospitalized and I would come home as a small child and she would not be there for a month. Later, my sisters and I would be hypersensitive to her moods (uh-oh…why is she writing us notes in capital letters with colorful pens? Why is she waking up really early in the morning?) I need some kind of solution but doubt there is one. My therapist knows all of this and gives me suggestions. My husband loves me but this really affects us. What do I do? Again, it feels like a primal feeling of loss when he is gone doing something else (other than working) with someone else. He has probably become the substitute for my mother, etc. who knows. What do I do?
From my recent experience – make sure it’s not all you that’s the problem!
This could be bunk – but here goes.
I spent 26 years marrid to a compulsive gambler, cheat, sexaholic, and liar. But he put up an excellent front (and the man does have his good qualities – he’s just an addict), he was an active alcoholic when we met but he quit drinking, at which point all the other stuff got worse.
Problem,,,,? I thought it was all my fault. I was causing this wonderful man to behave this way. Therapy was no help there, as I was cast in the role of family problem child…..which I had been growing up.
One good thing has come out of finally getting it deep down inside that my mother (and her sister, my aunt) ’s problem(s) had nothing to do with me. I slowly have been able to get that about my (as of tonight) former husband as well.
After six years in and out of women’s shelters (and the psych ward), I finally started questioning *his* behavior. (The women’s shelters helped. The intake questions. I really had to look at some problems….of his, not mine. They also helped me break off contact with my mother, as many of their intake questions applied to her.)
Anyway. Tonight my (now former) husband came home one more time saying the i r s has caught up with him, he has no money for rent or anything else, (I don;t know whether it;s the i r s or a loan shark)…..but it was one too many times. I told him to leave, tomorrow is restraining order day, and Monday is file for divorce day.
You and your husband being both adults, rather than a parent/child…are you sure none of it’s him, it’s all you ? (I may be way off here. But I spent so many years thinkingmy former husaband was such a hero to put up with my problems from my childhood, when the truth is we both had bad childhoods, and we both took quite a bit of bunk from each other. I just got the labesls, and he didn;t – which I accepted readily, as I was used to playing problem child due to upbringing.
Again, just a question. Icould be way off.
(Incidentally, irony here – former husband is now back living in my mother;s house at this point. This should be interesting – but by no means in any good way,)
To ‘A’ – Emotional abandonment is terrifying and experiencing this as a child can trigger major responses as Adults. I was 5 years old when my Mother picked me up from school and through her flood of tears announced to me that “they” were coming for her and that I wouldn’t see her for a long time. I remember showing her a painting I had drawn thinking at the time if persisted in her looking at it that her story of being abducted might change – but it didn’t. Sure enough the ambulance arrived a few days later and “they’ took her away.
There were more hospitalisations after that, foster homes and an orphanage. My point is, as a child missing a significant caregiver is threatening to a child’s survival. We archive these feelings but we don’t put the lid on them so hence any sense of potential abandonment triggers the release lever and whoa terror sets in. I would like to share with you an exercise that has helped me over the years.
Find somewhere alone to sit where you won’t be interrupted for a few moments and close your eyes. Picture in your mind’s eye yourself as a child – when you were a child and your significant caregiver left how you remember feeling – what were you doing, wearing etc. For example, were you crying, were you curled up with your hands cupping your face? Can you see yourself looking frightened? Hold this image in your mind for a moment. Now as the Adult you are today what would you like to say and do to comfort this child. In your mind, go to the mini you and pick her up, embrace her, tell her that “ it’s ok now, you will look after her and no one is going to hurt her again.
This is self-parenting, nurturing the wounded child within. Also it is ok in your current situation with your husband to let go, just let go of the need to control. I don’t say the word ‘just’ lightly as if it is easy but in letting go you are releasing yourself from reliving the trauma. When you feel the knot in your abdomen, the terror, go back to the child within and embrace her, acknowledge her fear and continue to reassure her. The world will not stop if you let go and remember ‘what’s for you won’t go by you.
Self-talk is good too. For example when you feel the fear or a trigger say to yourself “ I love myself enough not to put myself through this” “ I am nurturing my wounded self and there is healing and I no longer need to be right or impinge upon the basic right of another’s freedom of movement. Again “ I love myself enough to let go and let things unfold naturally”
There are many more strategies and I hope you may find some comfort in trying this. We are all a work in progress. Don’t be so hard on yourself, forgive yourself for thinking that as a child you did anything wrong. Just remember to breathe and let go.
Warm regards
Sleepless
A:
It is really amazing to me the variety of problems that people have that were (at least partially) caused by their bipolar mothers. Makes me thankful that I got off relatively easily in that respect.
A few questions for you about your abandonment problems:
Does your husband know the cause and scope of these problems? If not, then you need to explain it to him until he understands.
You said that when he needs some alone time you bother him. How far does your husband have to be for you to get those feelings? Does he have to be in the same room, somewhere in the immediate vicinity? I
How do you deal with him going to work, which I assume he does every day? Is it just a problem when he is somewhere unscheduled?
Have you made progress with your counselor? If so, great. I would make sure that they understand just how much of a problem this is causing, and that it really needs to be worked on. If you haven’t made progress, then it may be time to find a different one.
Yes, my husband knows the reason for my separation anxiety. It is rearing its head right now in a horrible way. He just retired (he is only 44) from a public safety position that allows you to retire with a good pension and free health plan after 20 years. He was going to do a mindless job that he enjoys but instead, has an former coworker who is organizing an effort to overthrow the current union representation in my husband’s workplace to start up with a new one. My husband is talking on the phone alot with these guys, leaving to go visit the workplaces to pass out info, etc. I am SOOOOO feeling anxiety. I never felt separation anxiety with him when he went to work, and believe me, he worked a lot (weekends, holidays including Christmas, and a ton of overtime). I would get boo-hooey if in one period he worked excessive amounts of overtime (live more than 5 extra shifts). When he is doing this union organization work (p.s. he is not getting paid for this) and he is on the phone in the same room, I feel threatened and anxious. He told the kids and me that he was going to retire and spend more time with them fishing, etc. and instead he is enmeshed in this union effort so hasn’t started spending more time with them (he has been retired for two months). I think that the difference between work is this…he HAD to work. He is CHOOSING to spend time with these people to organize the effort and not getting paid. In other words, he wants to do it. It is not like a job where he HAS to go. Sigh. I am acting nuts re: this. The guy that is the head organizer is an overachiever and is spending all of his time on the phone and driving around the state passing on the word about this new effort. He is spending hardly any time with his family. This guy LOVES calling my husband and talking and loves to talk. I guess I am afraid that my husband will become like him. I just found out last night that if this effort is successful, my husband will be offered a job with them. Again, we are fighting every day and I am crying and miserable. I do not want him to do this job. I stuck with him through 4 years in the Navy, and 20 years in a public safety job. This job seems worse to me (meaning that when he is home, is will be busy on the phone and computer all the time and his full attention will not be with us (I am sure that my fears are really that his attention will not be with ME). I am going to try to move up my appt. with my therapist to this week instead of next. I may have convinced him to go with me to a marriage counselor last night. While he understand this is about my mom, we have known each other for 26 years (since we were 18) and have been married for 19 of them (married when we were 25). He somewhat understands but after all these years sees it as more of an excuse. He is not close to his mom (an alcoholic) though he used to be until he got tired of her drinking too much. When he goes somewhere unexpected it throws me into a crying/whining state and we have a fight. RE: my therapist…she is great and I have seen her for years. She has given me ways to deal with them but these separation feelings are SO strong (it feels like they are coming from my gut) that I feel like I cannot do the things she tells me to do and I resort to my old behaviors. If she tells me to leave the house to take a ride, go in the pool, go out back and garden and that he loves me and will be back, I try, but I am right back to bothering him in a minute or two (why do you have to go? when will you be back? when are you getting off the phone? when is your next meeting?) Yeah, I know I sound nuts now. I am not bipolar per many therapists and I am fine when he and I are getting along, or has no other things he is doing outside the home, but now that this other thing has come up, I am a mess. Another thing about me…I am not good with change and yes, this is a change to the life I have known for 20 years. Also, there are things about the extent of the way I act with him that I have not entirely told my therapist because I am embarassed about the way I have acted. I have a degree and am successful in what I do. I know she respects for a not being a dummy but I am too embarassed to tell her that when he tried to leave the house to go for ride, I followed him, or something similar. I wish that I was able to get over this and be a normal person when in every other way, I am.
To Sleepless, thanks for the post. Some of the things you said hit home so much that I have tears in my eyes. I will try the exercise you mentioned though I have tried many times to reason with my feelings and convince myself about my husband loving me…and I still have these anxious, unreasonable feelings no matter how hard I try. Again, I will try your exercise and thanks…
To Forestchild…thanks for getting back to me. There are indeed many times my husband is not easy to get along with. After 20 years in a public safely position, he has changed. He is easy to anger and even if he is in a bad mood about something that has nothing to do with me, I feel like he is mad at me and keep asking “Why are you mad at me?” It makes no sense. We had a huge fight the other day. He came home from chopping wood in 90 degree humid weather, was tired, and had nothing to eat. He had the worst look on his face. I made the mistake of complaining about someone/something. His patience was low because of his previous few hours and he is grumpy when hungry, etc. so he made a comment about me being dense. That set me off and it made for a horrible afternoon…fight, etc. You are right…he is no saint but oftentimes, can be one. I am not holding him up as a hero because I know that he has a lot of flaws. Wonder sometimes why I chose him (again, his negative career in public safety changed him) but also am amazed at how great he can be sometimes.
To A:
Having read only part of your post. I don’t think you’re acting nuts.
I thinkyour husband knows how you feel – and is acting like he doesn’t care, and that is emotional abandonment.
Sounds to me like if he spent more time with you, *and was really emotionally there with you*, you might find it easier to allow him a reasonable amount of personal time.
Sounds to me like you’re feeling abandoned – because you’re being abandoned.
Just my opinion. But it’s from experience.
To all on group:
Just had an experience with my bipolar mother.
I called her.
My husband is contesting a restraining order (won’t go into the other weird b****llsh****t he’s been pulling), and I feel real threatened without that restraining order. (For good reason.)
So yeah, I called my mother. She *is* bipolar, and I *do* know I’m choosing to have to deal with that again….
But she’s also heavily Irish. We’re an Irish family. And we have a loooong history of closing ranks when someone’s personal safety is threatened, and resuming the family feud later. Had it before I was born, and I hope my children will carry it on.
Bipolar or not, the deal in my family (at least on my mother’s side) has always been: you threaten one of us, you threaten the whole crazy bipolar Irish team. Oh, yeah.
So….I don’t expect sympathy from the group about this, if it turns hard to deal with. Just wanted to say, my upbringing was not all bad.
One maybe hypomanic, maybe just Irish story (hard to tell apart sometimes)….once in my teens, I had moved two states away, my mother and I were fighting….and it got dangerous. I called her – and she drove through one state and into the other, picked me up, had a cup of coffee, turned around and drove home, and then went to work and worked a whole shift, without sleeping.
I have several stories like that.
Right now I feel much more threatened by my husband, than by my mother.
And she’s mad at him – he (addictive gambler) owes her a lot of money.
So…that’s the scoop.
Do know I need to deal with some childhood (codependent, it’s called) issues, if it weren’t for those childhood issues I would have gotten out of this marriage long ago.
But for today….mom and I have reconnected.
Just heard (didn’t ask – neighbor called)…
My bipolar mother just kicked my former husband out of our former house. Said either he goes, or *the whole family* goes, including grandson.
(Seems she does still own the house.)
Former husband had to move. Son, didn’t.
(My job now, is to not end up back in that house. I did feel like that was held over my head, the constant threat of losing it. losing my home. I need to keep a home that nobody can make me lose now. Hoping I’m in it….we’ll see.)
Wow so what’s the go there? Does she now think you will move back in? It’s ok to reconnect if it feels safe be it only temporary. I too get lulled back into safetybut then oft curse myself for thinking things might be ok. But you never know what’s around every corner – It might not be fire breathing Mommy Dearest everytime. Sleepless slowly slinks out of the room…..
Oh yeah and remember to keep breathing everyone
warm regards
Hi Sleepless. (Still breathing)
I don’t know what my mother thinks as far as that house (Gotten too convoluted in the past to go into here)….just know my job is to STAY OUT OF IT. Might get hard, if former husband wants to deny me support, if I end up back in a shelter. Hope I can take shelter living over going back to that house. Because again…my mother might swear to something one day, and go completely back on it the next.
Would be *easier* if she was a straight up monster….but she’s not. She has almost always come to my rescue if I was in danger…(just had a repressed memory come back. The one time I was in danger, first marriage, age 18. I asked to move home, and she told me, “You’ve got a home, now you go to it.” I had totally forgotten about that….those people who say there;s no such thing as repressed memory, are full of horsesh*******t.
Wow, I need to remember that.
It feels good to be reconnected with my mother…..but I need to remember that.
Did you ever watch Lord of the Rings ? My mother is *so* like Smeagol/Gollum. Smeagol’s a sweetheart who made a mistake, that’s all. Problem with Smeagol is….you never actually know when you’re really dealing with Gollum. And Gollum, is *not* a sweetheart.
Throw that in with those parent-child heart ties of a mother situation. Having a bipolar mother, I think for probably more people than just myself, is a bit like having Smeagol/Gollum for a mother. (It’s a b*****tch.)
But yeah. God, do I need to stay out of that (evil) house.
Hope you guys won’t write me off as a drama queen – not just yet. I swear, my life is ordinarily not all drama and trauma. This month, has been very unusual……and I don’t know why I’m not having a nervous breakdown, because I’m not used to this.
Head back on my shoulders a bit now. Thinking, mom (if she’s in the wrong mood) could very easily say just the right (wrong) thing to the landlord, to get me evicted. It would be her old pattern, to decide she *wants* me bakc in her house – event that *she* will decide whether I get this divorce.
I owe it to her to be the best daughter she will let me be. (Because I sure don’t mind calling on her to defend me, now do I ?) But I also owe it to myself, to take caree of myself. (Also do owe my son some amends. If he *can’t* work, and it;s not due to drugs – it’s due to my past behavior. Won’t go into it here – but htere’s no way this kid doesn’t have PTSD, and there’s no way it wasn’t me that gave it to him. My guilt here, is quite justified.)
Anyway. Mom.
Now the door is open for me to write once a week , as she’s wanted me to resume calling once a week….whether she wants to write back or not. (I do not owe her that weekly call. I know what that would do to me. Dammit, if it wasn’t for that, I’d gladly do it!)
If she’s in town and wants to meet up…..I do owe her some contact, if I can stand it.
I do not owe it to her, to have her at this apartment right now. It really *is* not a good time. I really *do* feel the landlord is looking for any excuse to evict me.
That second part, she doesn’t need to know. All the explanation I owe her, is, it’s a *really* bad time right now. Let’s meet at Russell’s, or in town.
Amend that! (What am I doing……again?”
If she’s in town, I need to out of town or NOT ANSWERING THE DOOR that day! I do NOT owe it to her, to let her come to this apartment – and get me evicted!
(Kepte believing, kept wanting to believe.)
Well. Thank God/the Creator, for info blogs! They can really jog one’s memory sopmetimes!
The avoidance – outright lying. all through my childhood. This is what my whole family did. No one ever just said no,,,,becuase no one ever just heard no, and respected it.
First no I said to one of my parents, I felt so scared afterwards, shking. Mom was having an affair, asked me if I would babysit dad….and tell him she’d gone to Reno with ’some of the girls’, to ‘get a break.” I told her a straight up no that time….and suffered emotional fallout for it, even though (for once) she respected it and even apologized, because she knew and admitted it was wrong of her to ask me that.
The apology, was unususal. Most often in my upbringing, a straight no without a good excuse might very well start a full-on feud, a rant that would go on for days….well, don’t need to tell you guys about rants, do I ?
But. My memory returns.
And some god news. Former husband left owrd he is not contesting hte restraining order. Need to call the courthouse and make sure he’s telling hte truth….but if that’s true, then it’s also wonderful.
My calling out mom (which I’d rather take a beating than do), shook him up some. Thought it would.
I do owe her that contact by mail, though. Not okay with myself, using her for my own purposes, not showing her any love. and I do love her, I’m just always afraid of her, what bas things might happen if she comes around. (Repeating myself here. Sorry.)
That’s ok Forest. It’s great reading. We can love them and loathe them (jokes) Ahem we can love them but not love their choice of behaviours. My Mother is being nice right now – well on my message machine. It scares me so when she is being pleasant because you never know what the polarity will bring. The calm before the perform. hmm we shall see….
Sleepless
Can relate to that one!
Hope her bout of niceness is a long one…..and that other shoe either dosn’t drop, or falls somewhere besides on you.
Let’s you and I both keep our radars up, shall we ?
P.S. to Sleepless: Nice save there, getting that “ahem” thing out of your throat. It’s hard not to choke sometimes, on those things…
Indeed hard not to choke – I have a frog in my throat and I think he just crossed his legs. Yes well 2 days gone by and no missiles launched from either camp. I could be rather bold and say I think I am processing her input into my life more responsibly these days or perhaps age is slowing down my response time lol.
The bad dreams come now. In all this, leaving husband….dreamed I was living in a ratty hotel. Only one shower in the building. a mother and daughter lived there….mother got a shower every morning. Daughter hadn’t gotten a shower in 19 years, but every morning she got her hopes up and got ready, just in case.
This was so hard for me to watch, that I went back to old house that mom owns….but husband pulled up so I had to leave there, otherwise it would break the restraining order.
Know the dream means I am scared to alienate him too far, scared of ending up depending on mom again for anything.
(Yuck. Hate this….)
My goal now is to write my mom briefly once a week. Her wishes start at a call once a week. We’ll see how the writing goes.
Friend who’s a therapist suggested I visualize putting flshbacks on inner DVDs, to store and watch later. Mom is already getting her own series. (But, that seems to be helping, at this point.)
Estranged husband just had me a landline phone hooked up, so we can speak….
Happy, but then got a chill, thinking, “If mom gets my phone number, she can call.”
Taking number off hte wall. Not going to give it to son. He can call out, and get calls back on his cell. That way he won’t be put in that position of screening calls/keeping secret numbers again, which was how he grew up.
Poor kid. All three of my kids. Geez.
So now (once again) my relationship with my (now former) husband, is affected by my mother’s illness.
Even though she rallied to my side with some support that I didn’t expect (it was like the person shining through the sickness for a moment, it was wonderful to get a glimpse of my real mother again) – what I actually asked her to do, was stnd by me as a witness in court. She said she couldn’t get to town due to her health….then told me the next time she planned to be in town for a doctor’s appointment. (Sorry if I already wrote that – and thank you that for this site, where I am finally learning that other bipolar people behave this way, this is not unique to my mother.) Bit of resentment on my part, as a few years ago mom accused me of not being able to tell fantasy from reality…..well duh, considering I grew up contantly hearing bunk like “I can’t comne to town/this is when I will be in town”, I wonder how I ended up out of reality ??? Go figure.
Anyway, the thing with the house….I did *not* ask my mom to kick anybody out of anything. At first it felt good that she would defend me, in any way. But now it will be better for me when former hubby gets a room rented somewhere, as he won’t be trying to move back in with me….and he can’t rent a room from my son because Gramma will kick everybody out. (He *is* still sleeping at my son’s, anyway, his other room situation didn’t work out….sigh.)
Have decided to write mom briefly every *two* weeks, maybe once a month. Thinking once a month would be better – safer. It’s a sad thing, I’d love to be of some comfort to her….but I know from experience that if she gets to thinking about me, she will find out where I live, and she’ll be over here talking sh*********t to the landlord….and the next thing I know, I’ll be evicted. This has been Life With Mom – And Her Illness.
(Yeah. Once a month, I should write. Not every two weeks….)
Well, my son has the house phone number now. He needed it for work reasons. I asked him not to give it out to anyone other than prospective employers – not even other family members. If mom gets ahold of it and calls, I’ll just have to buck up and get off the phone immediately, and risk her wrath.
The landlord seems to be wanting me here now, knows I’m a good tenant and the rest will be paid on time, all of that stuff….
I have marked on the calendar one day a month two write to mom whether I hear from her or not, so I do feel like I’m doing my duty as a daughter (lot of D’s in there…..say *that* three times fast whydontcha!)
On the bipolar front….I know that I’m at least a potential bipolar myself. I’m on meds for PTSD, which I have in spades, go figure….know if I feel myself running on an adrenaline rush for very long, I need to slow down and take my antianxiety meds, because I do know that there’s a thin line between “poential” and “you are there”, and if I haven’t already crossed it I sure don’t *want* to cross it.
Don’t think I’ve already crossed it. Think if I had, I would not or could not put on the brakes and slow down and mellow out.
Hope everyone out there is well, all things considered. Much love to all.
Sorry, me again….but this is important.
At this point, if being in contact with mom through the mail triggers my AlAnon disease, I will have to stop. (I hope it doesn’t….we’ll see. But I have to be careful.)
Just kicked my gambling-and-sex addict husband back out of the house, and cut off *all* contact with him this time, because he is still deep in his disease. (He’s going to harm himself or someone else or both if he doesn’t turn around.)
Realized my own Al Anon (codependent, re/bipolar alcholic mother) disease was totally behind my letting him come back…..he played the health card, and I “couldn’t let him die”.
That “couldn’t let them die” thing, is part of my disease, re/alcoholic bipolar mother.
(I’m safe now. My son is safe now. My home is safe now. One day at a time, six hours at a time.)
Think this falls under an Al Anon twelfth step….thank you for letting me do it.
Sleepless, you are very much in my thoughts.
NGH,
I just wanted to share with you something about my BP mom. I have tried to tell people about her before and they don’t believe me or they think I just must be exaggerating. It has been so frustrating but I think you will totally understand.
When I was a kid, she said to me out of the blue that she was starting to sleep with her bedroom door shut and locked b/c she was afraid that I would come into her room in the middle of the night and kill her. I was very shocked, disturbed and hurt that my mother would think such a thing and I never understood it. I think it is as you have described…projection and role-reversal. I have just recently had a repressed memory come back to me about one night I woke up and she was standing over my bed with a knife. I asked her what she was doing and she said nothing and walked out. I went back to sleep and asked her the next day if she had come into my room the night before and she said no. I wrote it off to having a bad dream b/c I couldn’t understand it. Now I understand it and it scares the daylights out of me. It is so crazy that I don’t think anyone else would believe me but unfortunately, I have a feeling that the people on this site might. Needless to say, we are staying far, far away from her.
Phoenix~
Hey, it’s been a while. Lots goin on right now. Anyway I just wanted to type to say I am still breathing – sigh — Peace and Love
Oh My Goodness,
I just found this blog, and I cannot believe how many others are dealing with the same situation I am. My 60 year old BP mother is filing for bankruptcy and I am facing the prospect of having to support her for the rest of her life. I am just finising grad school with an embarrasing amount of student loans and I also have a chronic illness which is expensive to treat and sometimes limits my ability to work. I have been so depressed over this situation that I was suicidal last week. I have a wonderful therapist who helped me through those thoughts, but I would not be sad if my Mom passed away tomorrow. I would be reliveed. She is a blackhole- I have let her drain me of money, my physical health, and now I fear that I am also showing signs of being bi-polar. My therapist thinks I am just reacting normally to a LOT of stress. I hope she is right. I desperately want to cut my Mom out of my life and have been praying over the prospect for most of the evening.
I guess I just feel obligated to care for her because I know she has an illness. My heart goes out to everyone here- I am so
sorry that you are all dealing with this too.
I’m so glad I found your site. My mother acts as if she is bipolar, though she has not been diagnosed. It isn’t something she would agree to look into, but all the signs are there of a low-level bipolar disorder, maybe hypo mania. I could go on for lines and lines about her history, which included a few years of alcholism (when I was a child) that won’t or can’t be admitted to, though thankfully they are passed, and the effects her bipolar behavior has had on me and my brother, who is estranged from the family no doubt in large measure because of her behavior (I sometimes think he was pushed out of the house by the elephant in the room, sometimes he poked the elephant and was the worse for it), and so on. These past two weeks have seen her tell me to get lost, as in permanently, estranging herself from me and asking me not to attend a family funeral. Part of me feels relieved to have this distance, because it’s otherwise walking on eggshells or having them thrown at me, and part of me is both sad and angry because she can’t leave this between us, or among herself, me, and my father, but has begun forming sides: if I go to the funeral, she won’t, and what havoc that will cause among the extended family, &c., &c. She is maniuplative on top of manic depressive, and I am doing all I can to remember I’m not the cause of it, and to not feel guilty for feeling relieved. Yet I don’t know what to expect next; she is not one to be ignored, even if it is to stoke up the fires of all that is unpleasant. I’m so grateful to have found your site.
To Sick/Tired, and Sleepless -
Sleepless, it’s very good to hear from you. My thoughts have been with you a lot these days.
S&T…..I’m so glad you didn’t commit suicide! Please don’t do that.
Boy, can I relate about your mother. Only difference is, I guess I’m lucky in one way, as my stepdad left my mother well off so now the person she keeps trying to bankrupt is me, ha ha. (Not funny….that was a laugh of insanity. You know, with the crossed eyes and all.)
Best of luck on turning out to be not bipolar yourself….my new shrink just pronounced me not bipolar, though an earlier one gave me the diagnosis. Those of us who grow up with mentally ill parents, learn to imitate our parents the same way other children do, it just makes sense.
YOu are so completely not the only person who has ever expressed the thought that it would not be sad if your mother would just die and leave you alone. That’s a desperate thought that many of us find ourselves thinking…..it’s an effect of our parent’s illness. It’s only natural to wish that a source of constant torment, would just go away.
Someone recently defined stress to me as a demand that one does not have the resources to meet. For me, that definition made sense.
Where I’m at with my B.M. (haha – that’s funny!)
is this: I decided earlier this year to wtite to her once a month, to assuage my guilt. This week I bought her a card….and I haven’t been able to write anything on it. I’m hurt that she won’t write back, not even a few lines…..but at the same time it would scare me if she did write back, because she scares me. I can’r very well fill her in on the grandkids’ lives, as she calls them all the time. Can’t ask about her health, as she won’t write me back, and I couldn’t trust her to tell me the truth if she did….well, I’m sure you know how it goes.
Actually, I don’t think she calls my youngest son….because he doesn’t call her. Because she gave my oldest son the family home, my daughter an ongoing amount of money….and my youngest son nothing as she disapproves of how he behaves.
Giving myself a headache writing this, so I’m going to stop….will probably just send her the card, write Thinking Of You or something, and leave it like that. I could really relate to what you said about that black hole thing…..it’s just never enough.
So self-defeating on the part of the bipolars who do this. If they would just let it ever be enough, they would probably get so much of what they want in life. But after a while, people around them give up, because they just can’t take it any more.
All my best wishes to you with this. Hope you can take good care of yourself, concentrate on *you* and *your* life, give yourself the attention you’ve probably needed for a very long time.
Like many others that have posted here, I am also very glad I came across this site. I’m twenty years old and my mother’s disorder has led to a complete lack of a stable relationship between us. My parents divorced when I was four and I lived with my mom, which was none to happy to say the least. My mother has also used her illness to manipulate those around her and place blame for her problems. I’ve tried very hard to keep a relationship with her, but I have pretty much given up, seeing as how she has cut me out of her life almost completely. After leaving for college, our relationship further deteriorated as she believed that although I must make my own decisions, apparently I wasn’t allowed unless she gave me permission. After a disagreement (a very small one, but i guess bipolar disorder can warp things), she cut me off when I was nineteen, now that I am living on my own two feet I’ve have found out alot that I never knew about my mother, including how her control over my finances until now has meant that now I seemingly have no money in any of my accounts…..interesting to say the least. I love my mother like any child does, but it hurts alot because it just doesn’t feel like the feeling is mutual when she won’t even talk to you anymore. Anytime I try and talk to her about our relationship she pretends nothing is wrong, and she won’t be honest, but I guess we all now that comes with the territory. I email, I call and leave messages, but she never responds
Much like forestchild wrote, “Actually, I don’t think she calls my youngest son….because he doesn’t call her. Because she gave my oldest son the family home, my daughter an ongoing amount of money….and my youngest son nothing as she disapproves of how he behaves.”, I am like her youngest son, and I deeply understand how much that hurts. My mother got remarried after she divorced my father and two more children. My brother and sister receive ongoing amounts of money and attention and then there’s me, the struggling college student, who’s mother occasionally gave her 30 dollars to last me a month for food (at least I never gained the freshmen 15, lol). It’s not like a Im a bad kid, I graduated with honors. I guess I find myself asking “What did I do wrong?”, but I have come to find out from the support of my father, and many of my friends, that I didn’t do anything wrong, but that mother is just a little bit crazy, haha.
Oh, and for Diane H, you may be interested in the book, “My Mother’s Bipolar; So What Am I?” I plan on buying it immediately myself, it’s had great reviews, and has helped alot of people understand they’re parent’s problems and offer some little bit of forgiveness
At middle age, I’m experiencing a new thing, and my mother has a lot to do with it.
For the first time in my life (that I know of), I cry in my sleep on a regular basis, and wake up crying.
I suppose it’s healthy. I’m experiencing my own grief. (And, I’d rather do my crying asleep than awake.)
Also, it’s helped me come to a decision about writing to my mother at this time.
Recently, I was able to put into words for the first time that my husband and I lost our home last year. This admission was in a social setting, so I didn’t include the story about my mother being the landlord….but it was the first time my brain ever put together the reality of those words, ‘we lost our home’. (After fifteen years there, I’ve been very homesick lately, still haven’t adjusted to this apartment.)
This afternoon I took a nap, and started weeping in my sleep over how much I miss my backyard and my trees, and the home I had such dreams for, where I mostly watched my children grow up. In the dream I was having, I called mom up and asked her, “Why did you have to do that to us ?”
When I woke up, I realized it doesn’t make sense for me to continue writing to her out of daughterly duty, on several levels. One, she makes no effort to reply to my letters, even though when I dont’ write she cries to other people that she misses me “so much” and wishes she would hear from me. (She wants me to go back to calling her. I used to down six shots of Jaegermeitster before calling her, so I wouldn’t remember the awful things she said.)
But more importantly than this, there’s a big chunk of reality I need to face about my mother’s behavior.
This last time she threatened to sue us or evict us for being two payments behind on the house, we were actively making extra payments each month to catch up on the money we owed. Which was originally two thousand dollars….that was the amount of the two payments we missed. We gave us permission to miss them, when my husband’s father was dying of cancer. She told us she would simply add two extra payments at the end of our purchase of the house. Then after my father in law died, the threats to sue us started.
The last threat to sue us or evict us came when she demanded two thousand dollard in full immediately, ignoring what we had already paid *on* the two thousand. She told my son we owed her *twenty* thousand! (He knew better.) She never needed the money, and still doesn’t. She’s quite well off financially. She recently wnet on a spending spree….to buy our son new clothes for his job, clothes he didn’t ask for, and accepted in order not to hurt her feelings.
Last week I bought her a card, but I haven’t been able to make myself write anything in it. There’s no point sharing news about the kids….she’s in touch with the kids. I can’t ask her about her health, since our letters are one-way only. If I send her news about myself, she gets mad because it’s all about me and I’m not interested in her.
The truth is, my mom has treated me atrociously. I’m not sure I can blame it all on her illness at this point….but illness or not, for now I’m able to give myself permission not to write to her. I’ve written to her three times and gotten no reply…..I think after teh way she’s treated me, I’ve more than done my duty as a daughter.
Somehow, this weeping in my sleep thing makes me feel much clearer afterwards, in the waking world.
Forestchild:
Two questions that helped me when I answered them honestly were:
If she weren’t related, what would your relationship be?
If your positions were reversed, what would you do?
What you will find, no doubt, is that your mother is a devious, manipulative, and cruel person. What she does to you is done to keep you in an inferior position, so that she can use you as a toy. It is her decision to remain like that, illness or not. And if she is like my mother, it’s way too late for any meaningful treatment.
Well, this is really setting in–the fact that my mother has severed our relationship. On a moment-by-moment basis, I continue to feel relieved that I don’t have to call just so she can say hurtful things about me and my husband and speak nonstop for the entire duration. But it is also dawning on me that this is really a break that I haven’t figured out entirely–how it will affect my relationship with my dad. Last I heard I was being called dangerous–she was afraid of me–and that any attempt to be rational was a sign of his siding with me. I have always wondered how he dealt with things, but now I wonder what toll this is taking on him. I have have a feeling of dread that this is going to blow up on me in the worst way over the coming holidays. I think this feeling must be a product of living with her manipulative behavior for a long time and being a generally dutiful person–hence an unshakeable guilt when I am not responsible for this. I just don’t like the foreboding.
I’m a 6l yr. old MOTHER (who did a pretty good job of being
everything I could for my 3 boys) I’ve been told my bipolar
disease is minor, but when it hits it is very difficult to live
with me. Until about 1989 I handled it well, by self-medicating
myself. No one knew I was using prescription drugs or drinking
at night until I got out of hand. I’ve been in 5 treatment
centers (most did not help) It did get me out of their lives.
I have the type of bipolar that just comes & goes with no warning.
Don’t get me wrong, I couldn’d live with myself, but have been
married to the same man for 34 yrs.—so sometimes I must be o.k. and great to be with or maybe something is wrong with him for
staying with me. My three sons, other than one who lives near are doing well & other than worrying about me every now & then
they have their own lives & seem pretty happy. The oldest is
living with a woman who is much worse than I am, but has two
children and a super father. The middle son lives in Atlanta
with his partner, both of them are attorneys & have a very happy life with a group of good friends. The youngest took after me
& is artistic. I took him to the College of Art every Sat. from the time he was in Kindergarden. They are all very intellectual
The youngest is an adjunct professor in California. He is a bit
strange, as most artists are, & O.C.D. but also enjoys his life. Of course, they don’t have to live with me & I have become worse
in my old age. What worries me most is how much I hurt my husband, as they have their own lives (not that they don’t worry)
but it’s different. I have changed Phychiatrists (as of last
week) & have a new psycologist/therapist I will see again tomorrow
hoping for help that isn’t the same old (stick her away) nut ward
I even went to John’s Hopkins, & a dual diagnosis place well
thought of in Malibu. I stay clean for a while & then bam–back
it comes. Well enough of this—-Just want to point out that
this is NO FUN for us either, & more testing & trials should be
done.
To “Also Tired” –
I can so completely feel for you.
The hoidays are so hard.
Maybe talking on this group will at least be of some comfort – I really do hope so.
If I get my way (ha ha), I plan to volunteer at a hoeless shelter of the holidays, not sit around with family and long for the old times.
Although I do. Long for them, I mean. But, the way I choose to remember them….which is through rose tinted glasses with very thick lenses. In reality, I spent most holidays crying in the bedroom. So my famlily is already quite used to Mom not being there.
I was just diagnosed with bipolar-hypomania. Don’t know if I’ve ever been fully manic. I’d say my brother, mom and dad are on my “level” of crazy. One of my sister’s is off the damn charts in her personal life, but a great Kindergarten teacher. So weird.
My husband is in Iraq. I had to tell him over the phone. He said, I already knew that, and I love you anyways. But he couldn’t hold me. I am so scared. I have intentionally kept things from my doctors before in order to “avoid” this disease. I was diagnosed ADHD-Inattentive, Anxiety and Depression for four years. Ha. I’m so scared.
I’m 30, childless. And with this diagnosis, should obviously stay that way. Thats how I found this post…googled “should I have children if I am bipolar?” Crazy to find this site, the flip side of the coin. It’s like a sign or something. I wonder if I’ll be able to keep myself from having children (I can talk myself into or out of almost anything). I have never been so honest in my life, how am I doing?
Dear cb :
There *is* another side to my mother, besides her sickness. I wouldn’t trade her for another mother, for all the world.
Of course you have a right to make your own decisions….but I’d like to ask, is this the time to decide that permanently ?
My mother was never treated for her illness. There is treatment.
I’d like to also point out…I don’t know if you’re familiar with the actor Sean Astin, but he is also the child of a bipolar mother. His mother is Patty Duke Astin. Both of them are brilliant, and from what I gather by way of the media, today they have a warm and close relationship. Sean Astin certainly has a successful life, not only as an actor, but in his own family life…and he is also highly educated, though I forget which university he graduated from.
Please don’t sell yourself short. All this information, can be used for something positive.
My mother never realized how her behavior affected me, and she continues to not see how her behavior affects others. You have an opportunity here, to look at these things, and realize it if you catch yourself behaving in these ways.
Also, you said you don’t know if you’ve ever been fully manic. Now you’ve read about what ‘fully manic’ looks like. Hopefully you have a chance to avoid going there, whether you decide to have children one day, or not.
Best of luck to you.
(P.S. – I have been diagnosed as bipolar myself. My psychiatrist now, feels it was probably a misdiagnosis. If I have any choice in the matter, of course I choose not to be bipolar, and of course I don’t want to take the medications for it. But if it turns out I am bipolar, my psychiatrist and I have agreed that I will start taking Lithium. I’ve taken it in the past, and out of all the meds for bipolar disorder, it’s really not so bad….at least, I didn’t find it to be so bad.)
Hi Everyone, Sleepless here. Just writing to say Hi. Miss writing to ya Forest. Forest what is a ‘hoeless’ shelter? The mind boggles. I would like to encourage everyone who is affected in some way that mental illness does not define the individual. Rather that there are individuals managing a mental illness. Some have insight where as other’s insight is grossly impaired. Support groups like this ( I call it that) provide clarity and comradeship – I thought I was the only one dealing with ‘mum’ . Anyway enough waffle for now..Peace and love and most of all sanity! SMILE & HUGS
To Diane H… In regard to the book you asked about. My mother has borderline personality disorder and my stepmother is bipolar. I got a book called “Surviving a Borderline Parent” it is by Kimberlee Roth and Freda B. Friedman, Ph.D., LCSW. It is all about how the children are affected, the chilren like me. And like you. Although the book is specifically for kids from Borderline parents, it has been enormously helpful for me for dealing with the hurt from both of their disorders. Check it out. You can purchase on Amazon, or at Borders.
Peace to you along your journey of unlearning.
-teen
Hi, Sleepless – been thinking about you, hope you are doing well.
Er, I think I meant to write ‘homeless shelter’. Ha ha. Guess a hoeless shelter would be place where they don’t allow ho’s. (?)
(I’m a lousy typist without my glasses these days. Middle age, you know.)
At this point my husband and I are back living under the same roof and trying to find some semblance of working things out, but I’m going back to school just in case it doesn’t.
I write to my mother once a month, and she doesn’t write back, which I’m perfectly comfortable with. She sent me a hundred dollars and a potted plant for Christmas though….money and gifts have always been her way of communicating any kind of….affection or whatever it is she feels. I feel bad for her, I can only imagine what it must be like to live in her head, I know it’s hard enough just to live in my own. But that’s the peace we’ve made. (I was very tempted to send back the money, I don’t want to take money from her, but I think she would have been hurt if I’d done that. If that’s how she’s comfortable communicating with me, then so be it, as long as it’s not a loan.)
My onw psych doc has pronounced me officially not bipolar, which is a huge relief. He’s treating me for PTSD, and I feel like the diagnosis fits.
Mostly I think being a member of a twelve-step group (won’t say which one due to anonymity) has helped me tremendously in this area. Also finding this group, and discovering there were others out there like me, has been a life saver.
My computer has been on the fritz, but I do think about you often. Your friendship has been a blessing to me. I do hope good things are coming your way in life.
Sending you a big hug!
I am a 37 year old mother of 3 with bipolar disorder. I believe now that my adoptive mother, in addition to having the congenital heart defect that killed her, was also bipolar. Around the time she left my father for his alcoholism (something I’d never, ever seen) she left our house and thus also left me there, supposedly with this alcoholic dad. I was only 15 at the time and she would call and harangue me about why I wouldn’t come live with her where she was staying in a one bedroom suite in a friend’s house. Then she moved into the basement of our home, giving my father a note that said she was just exercising her property rights and would not be bothering him. However, he found her standing over him on a few different nights, and sometimes she’d make herself at home on the main floor while we were out (there was a bedroom, bathroom, living area with fireplace, the laundry room and a kitchenette with full size fridge and freezer in the basement — it was nicer than any of the apartments she lived in later).
At Thanksgiving, I went with her to visit some relatives — her stepbrother was a lawyer. She made a point to ask me to leave the room while she discussed some legal and estate matters with her stepbrother. Later, she called out to my (step) cousins and me that we could go into the kitchen and fix a snack. At that point she loudly discussed how to guarantee my father would never get his hands on any of her money (which was all going to be settlement money from him for the divorce) and that she wanted her father, brother, nephews and even friends to inherit before I got a penny.
At Christmas I chose to go with my dad to visit my paternal grandparents. She screamed and cried from the basement and sent disturbing voicemail messages. Then she went to visit family in NYC and sent back photos of her having obviously been crying, or even crying in the photo, but dressed to the nines for elegant holiday gatherings.
She picked fights with me the few times we were together, then told everyone my father and I must be having a sexual affair. Then she wondered why I didn’t spend more time with her.
She died after the long, contentious divorce was finalized, between my sophomore and junior years of high school. I’ve come to peace with a lot of things now and remember the great times that did exist.
My point, more than 20 years later, is that I hadn’t realized before reading all these posts how much of the manipulative relationship tools came into play with bipolar disorder. My kids, ages 16, 13 and 5, all tell me that I’m the best mom ever and give me hugs, etc. Now I’m starting to wonder if I manipulate that behavior from them. I don’t think I do. I don’t see myself as pushy. But what if I don’t see it?
My life with my kids has not been perfect, but I feel I relate well with my children and create an atmosphere of love and respect. I know there are times I get angry and can’t stop my mouth, but I have improved a lot at removing myself from those situations before they get really out of whack.
Thank you for this blog and all your candid posts. I am a writer and am hoping to earn a fellowship from the Carter Center for mental health journalism and have been considering exploring myths and attitudes about mothers with mental illness.
Amy:
As you’ve described, and seen from my descriptions and others here, it’s not uncommon to see manipulative or paranoid behavior.
The pictures from Christmas are probably the best example of that, because only a sadistic person would try to manipulate you with guilt like that. At least she is now permanently out of your life, and that of your kids.
Recognizing that you may have learned some undesirable behavior from her is the first step.
Talk with your husband about your relationship with your kids. Make sure that he knows how you grew up, and what your concerns are for making sure that you don’t perpetuate that cycle. He should be able to tell you if your interactions use any of those manipulative tools.
Keep in mind also that good parenting will use manipulative tools to an extent to encourage or discourage behavior. What you are really looking for is the level or appropriateness of them.
A silly example would be telling a child that ‘everyone likes people with nice smiles’ to get them to brush their teeth. Not true, and definitely manipulative, but not unhealthy. An unhealthy example would be telling the child that ‘Mommies only love children with clean teeth.’ The difference should be clear.
No parent is perfect, and kids seem to be built to handle it fairly well. What you are trying to do is be as consistent as possible, and let them know when you mess up.
One of my favorite myths about mental health is that these disorders are caused by a chemical imbalance. The exact opposite appears to be the case. As to people’s attitudes, people who haven’t experienced it first hand have no basis for comparison. ‘You must be over reacting’ is a common response that I got. After hearing some of the messages, that usually changes.
I am a adult and my mother is a undiagnosed bipolar case. Its always been there laying close to the surface showing its ugly head now and again, but over the past 10 years it has gone into a full downward spiral. After cutting out every relative, parent , sibling, and friend she ever had , my mother is now focusing all her anger agression and mean spirit toward my father (he is disabled). She threatens him and verbally abuses him. She is off the deep end so to speak. She is emotinally and verbally abusive to my siblings as well as myself, although i seem to have the “best” relationship with her in part because i see the illness and have studied it, and also because i am a christian and feel that God made me her daughter for a reason, therefore i try like heck to keep her at least talking to me and not cutting me out of her life. Its amazing, she holds down a full time job, i am almsot certain that others see her ill manner but because she is highly productive (mania) and almost a workoholic it suits the company just fine as long as she is producing. She calls me in a state of mania and she will be cussing and angry and the next minute she is crying and sobbing. She is addicted to pain meds and I am certain it is because she is in so much pain and i mean emotionally and physically from her illness. She is exhasuted and i dont know how much longer she will go on before probably having either a breakdown or getting fired for lashing out at somebody. She screams all the time, she hates everybody and says so on a regular basis. You cant eat out with her because every waitress is stupid or a idiot, every store clerk is “rude” to her and every doctor is a bafoon. If i were to bring up that she has even a slight”problem ” and should seek help she would cut me off from her life in a heartbeat. She causes family drama and for a small spell starting telling “lies” within the family structure till she got caught and it backfired. HOWEVER in true form she managed to make everybody else apologise and controlled when and how she would communicate with us all again. Its a neverending cycle of pain fo me. This is the woman who gave birth to me , who put bandaids on my boo boo’s and threw me amazing birthday parties. I know most would say its too dangerous destructive etc and that i should cut ties. But i just cant. My heart wont let me. If nothing else i am a stabilizing force , even if it is small. I pray all the time that the Lord will come down and help her, that somehow she will seek help. But its never her, its everybody else. Her doctors cannot see it because she puts on a normal facade and acts like she is on top of her game. However recently i think she has had some runs ins at the clinic that is treating her for pain, she flashed on some nurses and doctors who basically warned her they wont treat her if she acts like that. Yet none of them seem to see a mentally ill individual who clearly needs help. I know she knows there is something wrong. And as i said lately it seems to be almost on verge of total meltdown. I know that most of who i see and talk to is the illness. My mother has been gone a long time now. But she held me when i was young, and I feel as if i have to uphold her as she turns old. Thank you for giving me a chance to express my sorrow. I will never stop hoping that someday it will get better.
I am Bipolar NOS. Anyone who thinks this disorder is not caused by a chemical imbalance is way way off base. I have been treated since I was 10 years old. I will be 50 this year with a 22 year marriage and two wonderful sons ages 19 and 12. Amazing how life can turn out with competent mental health treatment.
I am the daughter of a bi-polar mother. My father left her for another woman when I was three years old. My mother was committed to a state hospital at that time for hallucinations and expressing that she wanted to kill me. That was in 1957. The word bi-polar did not exist then; she was diagnosed with a schizoid personality disorder. Upon release from the hospital she never took any medication or went to any counseling. I, alone, had to cope with her rages. For any little thing I was slapped and screamed at. At worst she would humiliate me by pulling down my pants and spank me in front of others. Once she made me strip, spanked me and told me she hated me – for wearing a $2.00 pair of cotton tennis shoes out to play. She did apologize for saying she hated me. Big deal.
When I turned 18 I joined the WAC and moved 2,000 miles away. I only saw her once or twice a year and even then she had a hard time being civil. She was finally diagnosed with bi-polar in her 60’s after a stroke: a doctor at her rehab center was concerned about her behavior because she had kicked a therapist in the stomach and was refusing to do her therapy – in her usual rageful way.
If that wasn’t enough hell to go through, one of my daughters has been diagnosed as bi-polar after being verbally and emotionally abusive with her little toddler. I tried to get her to get help for almost two years and when nothing worked I told her that I would call CPS if she ever mistreated the child again. [I had cared for and homeschooled this lovely child for 2 years while her parents worked long hours]. For me and her papa, she was the heart of our hearts. When I made this stand to protect the child from further verbal and emotional abuse the parents found another caregiver and went into hiding. The father allowed me a one 1 1/2 hour visit with her during the past 8 months. It feels like she died; it is the cruelest thing anyone has ever done to me, not to mention the loss for my granddaughter, who LOVED me and her papa so much. I can do nothing because CPS and the Texas courts are over loaded with physical and sexual abuse child victims. I was told I’d have to wait until the abuse escalated before I could legally intervene. Sickening!
The state legislatures of this country need to support grandparents and family members when they see mentally ill parents abusing their children and are willing to intervene and take those children in while the parents get psychiatric help!
I wanted to leave a general reply to many of the responders… that much of what is being described by many of the posters sounds a lot like “borderline personality disorder.” BPD is often misdiagnosed as Bi-Polar by therapists who cannot tell the difference. Though Bi-polar can definitely wreak havoc in relationships, Borderline Personality Disorder is in many ways more insidious. For one, it often exists alongside other disorders that mask it. In addition, a portion of the borderline population are able to live normal and successful lives, but are abusive at home, often with only their closest relationship knowing what they really are like. They blame others for their problems and manipulate them through guilt and are often sweet enough to fool even therapists that it is their spouses who are mentally ill. If the phrase “walking on eggshells” has special meaning to you, then this may be worth looking into.
For general descriptions, check out: http://www.pdan.org/bpd.php
For resources, including an online community of victimized loved-ones, see http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/basics/main.shtml
And for a starting place for reading, find “Stop Walking On Eggshells” by Randi Kreger in your bookstore or Amazon.
Can someone recommend books to me regarding growing up with a bi-polar mother. I am 50 now.
My mom is almost 70! She has never been diagnosed with bipolar but I really think she has it! Her older sister does! As a child growing up when she was in her down moments for weeks on end I would always try to cheer her up or try to maker her happy. Then one day she would be all WONDERFUL again and life was good! Over and over again. I just thought she had a bad temper when she would get so mad and say such hurtful things. As an adult I now look back and know she has bipolar! Everyone loves my mom she has lots of friends and no one even knows her down side! No one sees this side of her unless you live with her! She seems to hide it well. Not even my cousins they have no clue what she really is like! I am in fear of saying anything because if I do she will lash out at me and cut me out of her life! I love her so much but have learned to keep my distance from her and I only see her now when I know she is in a UP mood. I can no longer handle the down mood with her! I can tell by her voice on the phone what kind of mood she is in or if she is starting to go in a down mood. I want her to get help but she will be in denial I just know it! Not to mention she will lash out at me! That really hurts because I love her so much! WHAT can I do to try and get her help and on medication IF she would even take it!!?
Palma: So basically she’s approaching the point that she won’t be able to hide her illness any more. Stop enabling her. Smoothing things over isn’t helping, and by helping I mean convincing her and others around her that she needs help.
Anonymous: There is very strong evidence that the chemical imbalance is a symptom of something else, not the root of the problem.
A.R.: BPD is a mood disorder as well, and can have many similarities with bipolar disorder. Psychology isn’t an exact science, so it is not surprising that the same symptoms can result in two different diagnosis. It depends on the importance assigned to different behaviors.
Kara: Until SHE feels that treatment is needed, there is nothing you can do that will make any difference. And it’s NOT your responsibility. To my mother, NOTHING is more important than believing that she doesn’t have a problem. Not even her grandchildren.
Replying to above: Borderline Personality Disorder isn’t a mood disorder — it’s one of the personality disorders, which are on an entirely separate axis of the DSM. The trouble with personality disorders is that they don’t respond to traditional treatments and medications, b/c they are embedded in the personality — those suffering often believe there is nothing wrong with them, as that’s just the way they are, and they’ll manipulate their social world to uphold that belief in themselves. They are not so well understood, and when confronted by a person with an “untreatable” disorder, therapists have been known even to intentionally misdiagnose. In the case of borderlines, who exhibit the most erratic behavior, they often are diagnosed as BiPolar. But bipolar treatments will not work on someone who does not have bipolar, and it’s potentially dangerous. So be careful. If the medication doesn’t help over time (and a borderline will fake like it’s working, or even fake taking the medication), and/or there seems to be a strongly manipulative and even abusive element to it, check the resources above. There are treatments, but they are new, and not well known.
Namegoeshere-
I do the “smoothing” because my dad is disabled and he wont leave her no matter what. trying to make it easier on him but not always having to be the one on the end of the battering ram. I am at a loss, finally a doc saw she nneded help and set her up to receive counseling servies and she has basically refused and told them she doesnt need counseling, and cant understand why she was reccomemded for that kind of treatment, she was mad and offended as usual and is currently lodging a complaint against them….she has been crying nonstop over everything and cant seem to go through a day without having a million little meltdowns. She also has ocd and when last i visited her house i noticed her organization was waaaay out of control, overkill on the lining things up etc…she doesnt want help and i fear something bad will have to happen before she will be able to be forced to be admitted.
Palma
It is amazing to read these stories and I already feel so much better knowing that I am not alone. I feel that my mother has suffered from bipolar since I cant even remember when. When I was growing up she would love me one moment and start screaming and ranting the next, so I literelly never knew where I stood and was always trying to please her as I was soooo terrified of her and her moods. I am now nearly 37 with 3 beautiful children and she still manages to push the limits all the time. I have had to deal with her being downright nasty and manipulating to my close friends and my children when she is on a down. This in itself has pulled me down emotionally for most of my life. She has spent each and every last dime and is always asking to borrow money saying that she will pay it back but lies as to when she can. She is always putting my dad down (the saint he is has always stayed married to her) I have always allowed her into my space thinking I only need to keep her informed of big goings on and not my day to day living but she is so nosy wanting to know everything and will even ask my sister whats happening…..with no luck there either!! My mother has always tried to cause hassles between my sister and myself and will put the one sister down to the other on a regular basis. One of us is either in her good books or vice versa. I am undergoing therepy at the moment and have decided that the only thing to do to get myself feeling better about her is to totally cut her out of my life. She is a nasty, manipulating woman and I need to start moving on without her in my life. My sister and I dread any family occasions as she always manages to totally mess things up for us and our families. As a child I trusted my mother only to have the trust broken all the time and the same applies today although I trust her with nothing and have even warned my children about her and her behaviour. It is about time she accepts she has a problem(she never will) but now she is going to lose half of her family and I am going to be strong against her critisisms, lies and manipulating ways once and for all!!!! Or at least start my process to a happier bipolar free life for my beautiful family who I need to protect from her!! We all need to support and be here for one another wherever we are on this wonderful planet!! let me know your stories
I am so grateful to have found this site. I too thought I was alone. My mother has bi-polar her first episode was when I was 6. I am an only child to a single mother. I knew from an early age that she was different. I too have felt imense guilt, shame and anger. I have seen my mother try and kill herself twice. It makes me feel better to know I am not the only one out there that has gone through some similar experiences of this horrible illness. There has come a point in my life I am 22 that I have decided to cut her out of my life. I am done. I love my mum very much, but I am sick of worrying about her, if she will take her medication on time etc. She put me through hell and never put me first. I feel like the roles were reversed growing up. I don’t feel like she is my mother. A lot of things growing up I thought was normal but it became apparent it wasn’t. I was so scared growing up. I also feel my mother is jealous and competitive towards me. My mum has been in and out of hospital since I was 6. A common theme yes is talking about sex and being promiscuos. She would blame her illness on not being able to get a job. I remember being in grade 5 and waiting for her to leave the house after getting no sleep because she was manic, had turned the house upside down. I called the police because she went for a walk and was stomping around and looking at the house. She was put into hospital and she hated me for it. she called me the devil for putting her in there. Often times my mother i do believe would bring on the illness herself by going away on her art socirty trips and smoking dope. the final straw for me was after 10years of not working she finally gets a job only to tell me she earns more money than me. not once since i have moved out of home has she helped me out or even offered to. Growing up primary school was just an escape for me because I didn’t want to go home to face that. I remember the stigma attached with mental illness and quickly learned that you don’t go around telling people your mum is in a mental hospital especially kids. i would often have to live with my grandparents when mum was sick and it wasn’t any better there either. i remember mum calling from hospital 7 times a day for cigarettes. i remember her taking my skirt for drama and turning the house upsidee down. for calling my great uncle a pedophile. for telling me to get on the ground when i was 10. stomping around the house. acusing me of hiding the pepsi max. for coming into my room and flicking the switch really fast. telling me that without make up i wouldn’t be pretty anymore. the verbal abuse was hard. it was hard explaining to my friends that would come to my door after a night of sleeplessness of her manic episode and me just having to go to school and act as though nothing was going on, to explain why my mother had left bobby pins in the door and the ladder infront of it. my mum would always take out all the photo’s and was very destructive. she would often ruin things. she got charged for pouring oil onto someone else’s car during a manic episode. she would miss dr’s appointments because of her course or sometimes i believe she wanted to be manic as she was more creative when she was. mothers day was never fun always being told i was nearly put up for adoption. sometimes i wish i was. i felt my family wanted me to take care of her. i felt robbed of a childhood. my only dreams growing up was moving out of home because i was so unhappy. i dont know whats worse the depression or the mania. some days my mum wouldn’t even get out of bed, it was frustrating, yet she could still smoke like a chimney. she claimed to have no money yet was receiving my youth allowence into her bank account which did not go on my education. i remember she had a drugo boyfriend and i was an impressionable kid and very guilable and would believe a lot of what she would say. she said if i told granny and papa we were going to bali she’d strangle me. my family didn’t offer me much support and most of the attention was focused on mum. mental illness does run in our family but before i was born my mother was heading down a bad path on drugs. i had no guidence of my mother. i remember when i was in grade 6 and thats when i started getting angry at my mother and that i realised i didn’t want to become like her. my mother has taught me nothing. i feel guilt because i do love her but another part of me thinks what kind of parent has she been to me. i remember being 8yrs old and we had $40 to live off for the weekend and she spent it on cigareetes. i remember nagging her to pay my school fees. i am scared of becoming like her and that i may have picked up on some of her moody behaviours. everyone gives into her. she has failed to protect me. i’m just so angry.
I have struggled with officially labeling my insane mother as “bi-polar.” She refuses treatment, and says she only has “emotional disorders.” Today I googled “is my mother bi-polar” and I came across your blog. It was as though I was reading my own blog posts. I cannot believe the parrallels between your experiences and my own. She has put so much doubt in my mind, my entire life, because she is such a master manipulator. After reading your blog posts I feel so much more at ease with my diagnosis of her condition. It has been nearly 9 months since I stopped all communication and contact with her in an attempt to protect my child from her negative and unstable influence. I see that you have not posted since January, and I hope that you are well. Thank you for sharing your story.
Hi. I’m an 18 year old girl whose mother has bipolar disorder. Right now I’m pretty sure she’s hypomanic – probably turn into real mania next week when I move out for good. I understand she is feeling hysteric because I’m leaving the nest.. But I just want to get away from her. I feel like I’m finally ‘free’ of my obligations to look after her. Tonight I had to ring the police because I was unaware of where she was and had reason to believe she was drink driving. Manic episodes always seem to happen at the most important parts of my life but this time I’m just going to get away… I am the child and it is not my job to do this any more. Rant, but getting it off my chest. Nice to have found this blog.
I am absolutely sick of my mother and done with all the pain she put me through my entire life. As a child, I never knew who I was coming home to. She ashed a cigarette in my father’s eye, would show up drunk or delusional to most of my sporting events. One way or another, she always found a way to make a circus out of my life and no matter what HER actions were, it was always her children’s fault or her husband’s fault. I have brothers and sisters who have ended up with severe drug and alcohol problems. I’m sure a lot of it was due to the terror they endured growing up. How many times can a mother threaten to kick you out of your house or send you to foster care for ridiculous reasons. I will never know what it means to have a strong foundation but I have learned from my past. I have learned NOT to let her make me feel guilty anymore, to have boundaries when she gets out of control. The sad part is that children have no where else to go when they are young and have no choice but to be subjected to the pain and confusion that their parent causes. It really is a form of abuse and I don’t think any child should have to grow up like that. I recall bringing boyfriends home just to gasp when I would find her drunk with her robe zipper down to her belly button, trying to show off for my HIGH SCHOOL boyfriend. There are so many horror stories. These people are really sick and they need help but the children need help as well. Luckily, I was able to pull myself out of the fire but I only learned after years of running to the wrong men that I thought would marry me and “fix my instability”. I finally sought conseling and moved on with my life. The best piece of advice I can live by is DONT FEEL GUILTY for having boundaries. My mother wouldn’t take her medication many times. It was like living in a black hole that was sucking me lower and lower. There was no rational reason for any of her rants and they would just come out of nowhere! I was a popular girl but I eventually became introverted because I was so confused about my life and tired of crying to my friends. Why did my own mother keep telling me I was a bad person when others liked me and believed in me? It’s sad that my father was too weak to take us away from that enviorment. He too, would participate in putting down his children and abusing them when my mother was upset with him. It was sick and we were the whipping posts. I’m a grown woman now and I look at them with such disgust. I rarely see them and when I do, there is always some crazy, nonproductive nonsense going on with them. Now that my mother doesn’t have children to abuse any longer, she is slowing killing my father with her psychological torture and there is nothing I can do about it. They are grown adults, they have made their own choices, I am not their parent. I’m DONE.
Namegoeshere,
Thank you for starting this site. Kudos to you and your family for your courage and forthrightness! I found this site at a time when I really needed it and have spent some time reading through all of the posts, to find that while the details might be different, the essence of my story with my mother has been repeated over and over again in previous posts.
Nevertheless, as I find this site cathartic, I would still like to share my story. My mother was diagnosed bipolar when I was a teenager, as was my sister. My biological father has been in and out of my life with little consistency. My step-father, until recently, has been the only stable influence in my life. I am married now and my husband, who is wonderful and very stable, and I are planning to start a family in the near future. When my husband and I were dating and throughout our engagement, my mother was her most charming self. I was honest with him about hers and my sister’s bipolar illness—but it was incredibly hard for him, at the time, to fathom that this charismatic woman could be so destructive. I grew up experiencing her rages against me, her depression, and caring for her to the point of feeling drained of any feelings other than guilt. She had frequently cut me out of her life in various ways, but always came around. I have been called every name in the book and she has spread rumors and lies about me to such a point that I strive not to have common associations with her. Until I was in my late 20’s, I really believed that because I was strong and rational, I could handle her. I have always stood up to her behaviors and set boundaries with her. I have been in contact with her doctors, to the extent that I was able, and helped her through suicide ideation by contacting her medical support team and being available for her as she needed. I have been the daughter who has been stable and has worked hard. As I started to become successful in my adult life, she seemed to resent it. She has always expected me to be successful, but as time passes and what she wished has slowly occurred, I think she feels jealousy. She has so much intelligence and creativity—and were it not for the bipolar, I do not doubt her capacity for success. I have noticed that her bipolar has become worse in recent years since my maternal grandmother died and it seems to me that the event of my wedding somehow triggered a point of no return in our relationship. My husband and I paid for and planned out our wedding on our own, but somehow my mother still managed to attempt to make it all about her and my sister. Since the wedding, she has been nearly impossible to please and has manipulated the rest of the family into thinking that my husband and I have no inclination to be a real part of the family. This is not true—or at least was not true until recent events occurred. I have done my best to encourage a distance between my mother and my husband, because in previous relationships, I have discovered that letting my mom get close to my significant others usually causes a lot of unwanted drama, such as loose boundaries (i.e. mom showing up at past boyfriend’s work with gifts or mom trying to befriend past boyfriends to such a point that they would never believe she could treat me so poorly).
In the case of my husband, I told him early on about the bipolar and he was able to see some evidence of it behind the scenes in written communication she would send me. However, even the plan to distance him from my mother backfired. Recently, she went completely manic on both him and me, berating us over the phone and over email for such things as having a clean house, wanting to enjoy the outdoors, not showing enough care and concern to my stepfather when his mother passed on, etc… . None of her arguments held water. My husband and I both replied rationally, but firmly. In response, my mother played the victim card and convinced my stepfather and sister that my husband and I were at fault and that we attacker her. Talk about projection! We have now been cut off from the entire family on my side. This is heartbreaking, as I am extremely close with my nieces and nephews and have now been told by my sister that she will never speak to me again. As an aunt, I really have no recourse for visitation rights. It really hurts to think that an entire family could be so seduced by my mother’s manipulation that they make decisions which negatively affect the kids. The sad thing is that my mother does respond to boundaries—if they are set firmly and maintained. When she had burned all of her bridges and I was the only one left who would speak to her several years ago, I set clear boundaries and was able to get her some help. She came out of her depression and did not rapid cycle for quite a while. Once the rest of the family saw that she had normalized, they all came back. However, none of them ever set true boundaries with her and so the bipolar in her is fed and the fun, creative, loving mother I remember from before the bipolar became really bad is being slowly starved out of existence. Thank you for letting me get this out of my system.